I read the PNPs outdoor camp guideline but still...

[tadkins]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The young people of this world raging at their employers and politicians and parents to fix their problems....

Why not? Those employers and politicians and parents all built a world where these problems exist. Young people today don't get the same opportunities they had, of course they're going to rage and try to get them fixed.

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes phsychos exist. They are definitely only further emboldened when handed UN leadership and given rotational priority over select mobs through either some lottery systems or easily gamable or scriptable FTE system. Make them also the leadership of only like the three main large zero guilds dominating the system and its easy to see why the aforementioned proponents of this system suffer Stockholm syndrome and are gaslighting me for suggesting there's a better way outlined by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ himself. Who went into the temple and cast out the usurers.

I won't disagree that the current endgame system is pretty messed up, and I wish we had a more cooperative server where everyone got a chance to fight a dragon. Turning it into a big FFA mess isn't the answer though.

For the record, you can declare Jesus as your lord, but he sure as hell ain't mine. Let's get that clear.

[magnetaress]

I have a career where I get to play a capitalist cutthroat who maintains compliance through fear of retribution. Know what I don't want to do in my off time? The same thing but unpaid.

This just described my experience on green perfectly. Thank you. Lol. Especially if I try to be honorable. Or take matters into my own hands. Or spare begging the elites for "help".

Sorry, being at the mercy of those with privileges and fraps isn't at all fun. Especially when it's so easy to bot and script, and make throw away accounts as a metagame yet having no desire to break those rules myself.

[magnetaress]

All I'm suggesting is that for a time a fresh red 2.0 FFA server will be more socially dynamic and interesting. And ppl will still form an in group getting all the pixels in the end, yes. I'll admit to that.

For a time though.

It would be glorious.

[tadkins]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All I'm suggesting is that for a time a fresh red 2.0 FFA server will be more socially dynamic and interesting. And ppl will still form an in group getting all the pixels in the end, yes. I'll admit to that.

For a time though.

It would be glorious.

Way back in the day I played on Sullon Zek when it first opened (was way younger back then, far different mindset lols) which is exactly what you described.

They eventually had to implement rules when one dude flagrantly exploited the no-rule policy (Fansy the Famous Bard). It was also the lowest pop server during its lifetime by far.

Just based off experience, I don't really think such a server would work out here. Maybe the GMs will put in the work to make it at some point though.

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Way back in the day I played on Sullon Zek when it first opened (was way younger back then, far different mindset lols) which is exactly what you described.

They eventually had to implement rules when one dude flagrantly exploited the no-rule policy (Fansy the Famous Bard). It was also the lowest pop server during its lifetime by far.

Just based off experience, I don't really think such a server would work out here. Maybe the GMs will put in the work to make it at some point though.

Just remember. Fansy was team good. The underdog. Fighting against all odds for a better Norrath. Dominated by team evul.

[tadkins]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just remember. Fansy was team good. The underdog. Fighting against all odds for a better Norrath. Dominated by team evul.

Yes he was. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I was team neutral, I cheered on his efforts against the OP evil team.

Just pointing out that a total no-rules server just wouldn't work. Even that no-rules server eventually had to get rules.

[Gloomlord]

I really didn't expect, or want, this thread to turn into another ringing endorsement of the hypocrisy of world PvP.

World PvP in EQ, just like in WoW, is about griefing. There is nothing more to it than that.

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I really didn't expect, or want, this thread to turn into another ringing endorsement of the hypocrisy of world PvP.

World PvP in EQ, just like in WoW, is about griefing. There is nothing more to it than that.

Let's take wow pve for example I can sit at a spawn point in Nazjatar spamming mind sear instantly tagging mobs and graying them out to other players. Denying ir delaying them the ability to get ex, loot, finishing quests. Is this not pvp? It's definitely pve. It's also pvp.

All competitive aspects of these games can be "pvp" especially FTE. Camping a single spawn or even /list camps diminishing a players random chances at any item even without outright Denying them.

Let's not kid ourselves that both cooperative and competitive gameplay exist in both pvp and pve environs and they aren't mutually exclusive. Both require certain skillsets. Both can be abused.

Honestly people on blue, green, in my many years of experience are way more persistent, territorial, competative, simultaneously anticompetitive (actively seeking to destroy other people's ability to compete like antitrust). Vs being cooperative. People on red have been in general far more cooperative, especially when there was less GM interference. And the servers where younger. When there's a common goal most people will cooperate to achieve it within a competitive environment regardless of the rules.

It's really disingenuous to say pvp isn't a cooperative or social game and that there aren't noble and ideal ways of playing the game with pvp being an option. And simultaneously erroneous to say people won't be toxic just because it's pve only. It's possible to have a chilled out laid back experience in either environment. And possible to have a perfectly miserable time at manastone, fungi, or jboots on both sets of servers. On blue and green you best be frapsing for sure because even if you where Honestly the first person to engage or be at the spawn already that guy with 50 manastones on his corpses littered around the spawn will definitely fake screenshots and reports u falsely.

I'd rather just invite some friends over for pizza and have an in game group with me. More than likely the toxic players who are bad and abusive people are perpetually soloers or loners and won't be able to harras people legitimately on an FFA server with an active population of roleplayers and do-gooders. Those people don't exist on p99 because they are driven off by the hordes of shut ins. Bots, and boxers, and long time lawyerquesters. Rules lawyers. It's just fatiguing endlessly dealing with the constant threat of a permaban and loosing years of progress. If it was pvp only the worst you could lose out on was a few hours or days and just have to log into an alt and go RP it up in unrest or CB for a bit.

People are thoroughly attached to and brainwashed their in game pixel rights tho. The upside is if you submit to the right groups on blue or green you can be "granted your turn in line". Most of those people are Honestly horrible tho and not worth playing with however.

Tldr. Green is just pvp frapsquest. It's not really classic and no longer really a fantasy game at this point. Nor an mmo. It's a pvp metagame. Where killshots are measured in permabans, suspies, guild bans, guild disbands etc.

[tadkins]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's take wow pve for example I can sit at a spawn point in Nazjatar spamming mind sear instantly tagging mobs and graying them out to other players. Denying ir delaying them the ability to get ex, loot, finishing quests. Is this not pvp? It's definitely pve. It's also pvp.

Actually in WoW mobs are shared tag now. I believe they only grey out if the person tagging is in a full group, or if they're tagged by an opposite faction member.

But yep WoW actually probably is a better game for someone like me; quiet, not very social, doesn't have a guild or friends. It offers far more solo content/ability to solo. But at the moment I'm stuck here due to an incident with my old computer. P99 is about the only game this cheap laptop can really handle. Right now I'm just trying my best here. I do speak from the perspective of someone who typically is alone though, who always struggled to find groups for content, and whom running a dungeon in this game higher than crushbone or blackburrow is a hilarious fantasy. I'd still love to see a dragon here one day, or at least do a group quest to earn something that simply can't be bought in the EC tunnel.

I do agree though, it sucks that one needs to have to suck up to the right group of folks controlling the content to do it here, even if they are terrible people that you'd never want to hang out with.

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually in WoW mobs are shared tag now. I believe they only grey out if the person tagging is in a full group, or if they're tagged by an opposite faction member.

But yep WoW actually probably is a better game for someone like me; quiet, not very social, doesn't have a guild or friends. It offers far more solo content/ability to solo. But at the moment I'm stuck here due to an incident with my old computer. P99 is about the only game this cheap laptop can really handle. Right now I'm just trying my best here. I do speak from the perspective of someone who typically is alone though, who always struggled to find groups for content, and whom running a dungeon in this game higher than crushbone or blackburrow is a hilarious fantasy. I'd still love to see a dragon here one day, or at least do a group quest to earn something that simply can't be bought in the EC tunnel.

I do agree though, it sucks that one needs to have to suck up to the right group of folks controlling the content to do it here, even if they are terrible people that you'd never want to hang out with.

Yeah that's how I played the game for years and enjoy it.

You're playing for fun and that's where it's at.

I'm actually much more social in wow because most content is instanced there for its mostly just a cooperative endeavor by my group. There's still the race to world first stuff butt that only factors in when pushing progress.

I last about three weeks on a lvl 60 toon in eq...and recently that level cap for me personally was more like around lvl 40. And I love to exclusively hang around popular dungeons and camps and help ppl. That's gotten harder lately with over half the server driving a fully raid teired enchanter style toon tho. So once a server hits a year old the game changes really drastically...

I would add a limited character age lifespan to my custom server. And items would be occasionally lost or destroyed by pvE events. Or have their own limited life span ranging from 3 months to a year. It would be very hard to walk around in full BiS velious gear or VP gear on my server. I'd probably instance raid content to counter balance that some tho.