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#1
05-31-2011, 02:51 PM
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The problem is that getting there an hour before it spawns means other guilds will get there 2 hours before it spawns. What was the rule for ToV? Kill Aary and the rest is yours? Whose ready to engage and petition the GMs for FTE? Is it KS or train and no bad blood comes from one guild merrily going on their way through the rest of the loot pinatas or is each dragon FTE? or even varianced... boy that would be a shitter.
Rotation with no variance or hard work with variance? hell if I know which is better. I take the GMs idea as a bittersweet resolution - you get there and engage the mob by being fast, sneaky, or ballsy. It takes more effort from tracking but also from organization and cohesiveness. The GMs don't have to get involved on every kill unless there is a problem. As of recently there hasn't been a problem because one guild wipes on the pull and the other gets it, one tracker mistweets and the call to kill never goes out, or better yet the mob is already did before another guild even gets there. Sure that may not be classic but it's less painful for the people in charge. When someone gets legitimately trained and the excrement hits the oscillator then a GM is called. If EVERYONE knows when stuff is going to spawn how will it be expected to be less involved for the staff? This is mere speculation, mind you. I can't claim one is better over the other but I don't feel that your argument is convincing enough. Noble Dojorn was one of the most contested spawns because his timer was known down to the second. Sir Lucan was fairly contested and caused heated arguments between guilds. Phinny was never a big issue because very few people were willing to put the effort into killing him in a way that he was killable so the mob was dead by time a large gang of people came in to tank and spank him. Things DID become KS/trainfests and the GMs got pissed off. Those are just small targets compared to the Kunark and eventually Velious stuff. | ||
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Last edited by Aadill; 05-31-2011 at 02:57 PM..
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#2
05-31-2011, 04:08 PM
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The point is - variance isn't solving anything. It just makes new issues, and doesn't represent classic gameplay. I'd be fine with non-classic solutions if they actually addressed issues - instead, this is just as bad as anything else. It was a nice try by GMs to shut people up and stop guild fighting. But it's not. So why deviate? We're not gaining anything..
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Monk of Bregan D'Aerth
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#4
05-31-2011, 02:57 PM
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#6
05-31-2011, 03:37 PM
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Okay, I used to be against the variance but recently I've become for it. I think that the variance would have been great before Kunark, because without it most mobs would respawn at the same time which would mean no one could possibly poopsock every target, and it would be just like having patch day repops every week. However, since Kunark launched, some targets are massively prioritized over others (Trak/VS but mostly Trak). Not having variance empowers people who just camp the spawn points of raid targets, because poopsocking is less of an investment - you literally just have to arrive about 5 minutes before it spawns to get the target, whereas with the variance it's more about tracking targets and mobilizing faster (or camping the spawn point as soon as the window starts, but as I said that's a greater investment because you could be poopsocking the mob for up to 4 days).
It's also possible that a guild could arrive 1 minute before the first poopsocking guild, which then creates a race to the bottom where every guild is trying to out-poopsock the other, instead of gambling on mobilizing to the important targets faster. Since Trak is prioritized over the other bosses, this is where all the poopsockery would be focused, which would suck for everyone. I also don't think of this as being that un-classic because it's more of a policy of the devs (like not allowing 2-boxing, or not adopting the same play nice policy as sony) than it is a change in content. Maybe these are silly arguments, I was in kind of a rush when I posted this, so if I need to clear anything up I'll come back and post later. edit: also, the anti-divinity tags are totally unwarranted. Grow up.
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Project 1999 (PvE):
Giegue Nessithurtsithurts, 60 Bard <Divinity> Starman Deluxe, 24 Enchanter Lardna Minch, 18 Warrior Project 1999 (PvP): [50 (sometimes 49) Bard] Wolfram Alpha (Half Elf) ZONE: oasis | ||
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#7
05-31-2011, 03:02 PM
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You're missing one question...
Why should the staff bother? Right now, they don't want a headache. I think both you and i, and any person who's been here raiding for longer 2-3 months knows that variance was put in to keep GM involvement low. They're busy with other shit and don't need to hear our crap. The problem is that it doesn't in any way resemble EQ live raiding. People didn't need to track mobs, they tracked guilds. Here comes FoH to Seb -- guess who died? If they take their hands off of us and let us play like the big boys we are then it'll settle itself. That's how it happened on every single live server. Forcing the raiding playerbase to behave by limiting who can grab targets and when by creating something that was never classic just so they can maintain a certain level of stability at the cost of shitting on the classic EQ raiding experience is unfair. There was a reason the majority of the more successful guilds were college students and older people and not 14 year olds who had the most time on their hands. Right now, with the current rules + variance it boils down to: do you have endless hours to waste and/or are you willing to mass recruit? We've both been around long enough to know that's been the case for years now. I was hoping they'd wake up and realize that it has to change soon and kunark would do that, but they haven't and it's still the same ol' shit. | ||
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#8
05-31-2011, 03:27 PM
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Kidding. As far as the staff not wanting to get involved: the point of Project 1999 is to make a working emulation of EverQuest as it was in 1999, right? The mechanics of social interactions are not part of that emulation. Take a look at the Fippy Darkpaw forums - they're doing the same variance style raiding and it has caused fighting. The alternative, however, has just as many people wanting to experience 1999 with the mindset and knowledge and I doubt it would be any different. The GMs there have had to do so much shit to appease the players that it is ridiculous. And no, JenJen, post counts don't mean anything I was just being facetious. | |||
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#10
05-31-2011, 03:37 PM
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My argument is that they shouldn't be trying to appease the players, and you apparently seem to be agreeing with me in that respect. The major part of p99 was to emulate the EQ experience, and the variance is taking massive crap on it. If they really wanted to make it happy-flowers-holding-hands they'd have put in a mandatory rotation, but they didn't because we said no. In fact, i still say no.
It's great reliving the leveling and grouping, and then you get to raiding and realize that it's nothing like you remember. Geegoo, it is sort of silly. You can poopsock all you want if everyone knows when the thing died, but poopsocking doesn't mean you get the target. Without variance you'd need a new ruleset, therefore the notion that you get the target because you were there first is false. Therefore, get there 3 days before the spawn or 5 minutes, everyone has the same opportunity to drop it -- just like live. Poopsock holds no advantage. The only reason it was an advantage before was because people were abusing the rules we agreed to and it was something we failed to address. Variance as a mechanic is there only to make the GMs lives easier | ||
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Last edited by Skope; 05-31-2011 at 03:41 PM..
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