Please check my math on Troll vs Ogre Shaman

[Baler]

Let's agree to disagree...
DeathsSilkyMist thinks ogre is best
Baler thinks troll is best

You won't change my mind, I can't change your mind.
We'll just be going in circles.

Let the people decide based on the evidence we 'both' provided. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's agree to disagree...
DeathsSilkyMist thinks ogre is best
Baler thinks troll is best

You won't change my mind, I can't change your mind.
We'll just be going in circles.

Let the people decide based on the evidence we 'both' provided. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We can agree to disagree[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I just want to make sure people understand the proper game mechanics for bash. You can easily do the experiment yourself.

A monster that bashes you does not always stun you. This is true on any race. On my 56 Troll Shadowknight, I have seen many monsters bash me while I am casting a spell. When that bash does not stun me, I can usually finish casting my spell. Not always, but a good chunk of the time. When the bash stuns me, however, I NEVER get to finish casting my spell.

This is how Frontal Stun Immunity reduces spell interrupts. By removing the stun component on a bash, Ogres never have to worry about the automatic spell interrupt from a stun. All bashes from the front become non-stun bashes, which means you always have a decent chance of landing a spell after being bashed.

EDIT: I can also show the factual math for Troll regeneration in a long fight. I just did a WW Dragon on my Shaman. It took me 15 minutes to get the WW Dragon down to 20%. In a 15 minute fight, a Troll would regenerate 1200 more HP than an Ogre. That means a Troll would get one free Torpor in this fight. This is why racial regeneration becomes way less relevant with Torpor. Even in one of the longer fights you can do, you are saving one Torpor. If a fight is determined by one Torpor, that fight was already extremely close. An extremely close fight like that could have be saved with FSI too.

[Guesty07]

Ogre every time. Although I'll be going Iksar for the looks.

[Baler]

Originally Posted by Guesty07 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ogre every time. Although I'll be going Iksar for the looks.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
No one cares that troll is better.

[DMN]

On a slowed mob at 60 you will be getting stunned on average less than 1 time per minute.

Or said in another way if a shaman was standing in melee all the time with one mob ( typical soloing situation for a level 60 shaman) the non-ogre would spend about 2%-2.5% of their combat time being stunned. The chance that stun time will overlap an absolutely critical moment that will determine the entire outcome of the fight is virtually zero given the "marathon" strategy shaman employ to solo at 60.

You have to decide for yourself if that's worth giving up regen but more importantly at 60 -- snare.

[Baler]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have to decide for yourself if that's worth giving up regen but more importantly at 60 -- snare.

SHHH
stfu, that's my secret weapon to cast down all the ogre fanboys when the sun sets.
(snare that works on ayillish, fear golems and more btw)

Let the ogres beat their face against a wall and tell us it's the right thing to do.
We'll be regening health sipping icy margaritas

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Okay I'll drop another bomb of knowledge....

Troll Shaman,.. gets... Halfling Illusion

There I said it publicly.
Giving away all my secrets [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Min/Max is TROLL

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I have the snare neck on a different character. It is pretty bad tbh. 6 ticks, and the snare speed is so low that the mobs need to be at 10% to stop running, instead of 20%. Get a spear of constriction if you want to snare[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Baler]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have the snare neck on a different character. It is pretty bad tbh. 6 ticks, and the snare speed is so low that the mobs need to be at 10% to stop running, instead of 20%. Get a spear of constriction if you want to snare[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shaman doesn't get snare, Which makes it really good on shaman.
As a Clickie and not a Proc.

Troll can use both the Clickie & the Spear Proc.
Troll winning

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ps. It's not really bad. The farm crew that was monopolizing fear golems was duoing / trioing with a troll shaman who used the snare clickie to stop fleeing golems from bringing adds to their camp. It's very good.

I use it to prevent WW dragons I solo from fleeing into the ocean. It's very good.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It is true that Shamans don't get snare. They rarely need it though. You face tank or root rot. The snare neck uses the worst snare in the game. 6 Ticks, low snare speed, and a 6 second cast time. So you really only get 4-5 ticks if you want to keep it on the mob.

[Baler]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is true that Shamans don't get snare. They rarely need it though. You face tank or root rot. The snare neck uses the worst snare in the game. 6 Ticks, low snare speed, and a 6 second cast time. So you really only get 4-5 ticks if you want to keep it on the mob.

any snare vs no castable snare
I'll take any castable snare that works on level 57+ mobs, thanks.

Castable means no dancing around waiting for the RNG system to proc.

The difference of adds that kill you vs no adds at all.
hmm, didn't you try to bring this into the topic earlier. Funny how I just validated it for TROLL and not ogre.