"Need before greed"

[Kalamurv]

Hazek you have a seriously messed up and completely wrong idea about what the "need" in NBG is. It doesn't mean you need the plat from the item or anything else, it means its an upgrade that you can equip on that character. Greed is rolling on an item you are going to sell, give to a twink / friend / your whore....whatever.

[Hazek]

Originally Posted by Kalamurv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hazek you have a seriously messed up and completely wrong idea about what the "need" in NBG is. It doesn't mean you need the plat from the item or anything else, it means its an upgrade that you can equip on that character. Greed is rolling on an item you are going to sell, give to a twink / friend / your whore....whatever.

Read my posts and try to use your brain.

[Kalamurv]

I did read your posts, and unfortunately you are the one not using your brain. You seem to think that because you believe your definition of 'need' is the one that should be accepted, where you are in the minority.

[Hazek]

Originally Posted by Kalamurv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did read your posts, and unfortunately you are the one not using your brain. You seem to think that because you believe your definition of 'need' is the one that should be accepted, where you are in the minority.

Its a logical fact that trading for an item you can use is the same as equipping the original. Yet some people are too dumb to understand that utterly simple concept.

That's why its hypocritically greedy to say, "no you cant roll on it cause you can't equip it" because you're literally denying that person an item they can equip through exchange.

And yet those are the kind of people who invoke "need before greed" even though its backwards.

[vossiewulf]

Originally Posted by Hazek [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its a logical fact that trading for an item you can use is the same as equipping the original. Yet some people are too dumb to understand that utterly simple concept.

No Hazek, we follow your logic, we just don't agree that it's correct. The reason being that it treats all these objects as gray boxes with no particular association to any class. If that were true, then your logic would actually work. But it is not true.

What is true is the objects have class associations so if you win the roll on the 500pp words with a mage there, that person will have seen something that they very much need right there and now it's gone. And it may be another 20 hours of camping before one shows up again.

That person will feel from pretty bummed out to like shit. Many would call it a night because this sucks. People who actually feel empathy for others would never consider doing that to someone else. It's not called the Golden Rule without reason.

What I see is people who feel no empathy for others, specifically you and a couple others, and I think that because your logic regularly requires that to be true to work. And the fact that you don't even notice that is also telling.

But at the same time, not everyone who's fine with rolling for everything is ok with it for the same reasons Hazek/Nordok wants it to be the default. Not talking about those people here.

[Hazek]

Originally Posted by vossiewulf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No Hazek, we follow your logic, we just don't agree that it's correct. The reason being that it treats all these objects as gray boxes with no particular association to any class. If that were true, then your logic would actually work. But it is not true.

What is true is the objects have class associations so if you win the roll on the 500pp words with a mage there, that person will have seen something that they very much need right there and now it's gone. And it may be another 20 hours of camping before one shows up again.

That person will feel from pretty bummed out to like shit. Many would call it a night because this sucks. People who actually feel empathy for others would never consider doing that to someone else. It's not called the Golden Rule without reason.

What I see is people who feel no empathy for others, specifically you and a couple others, and I think that because your logic regularly requires that to be true to work. And the fact that you don't even notice that is also telling.

But at the same time, not everyone who's fine with rolling for everything is ok with it for the same reasons Hazek/Nordok wants it to be the default. Not talking about those people here.

Wanting a fair role on items has nothing to with empathy. And if they were "empathetic" then they would allow other people to roll on it.

I do treat people how I want to be treated, and how they treat me. Because if I were the mage then I would let people roll on it like I already said. Or I would just offer to buy it from them or someone else.

Furthermore, a greedy mage is denying the other people from getting an item they deserve. It makes no difference if they don't get it immediately.

And if they throw a hissy fit cause they didn't win the roll then they're childish and I wouldn't group them after that anyway.

I'm all about being fair and just not catering to people who cry about it or don't understand. Although unfortunately they still exist so i'm forced to deal with them.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by vossiewulf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No Hazek, we follow your logic, we just don't agree that it's correct. The reason being that it treats all these objects as gray boxes with no particular association to any class. If that were true, then your logic would actually work. But it is not true.

What is true is the objects have class associations so if you win the roll on the 500pp words with a mage there, that person will have seen something that they very much need right there and now it's gone. And it may be another 20 hours of camping before one shows up again.

That person will feel from pretty bummed out to like shit. Many would call it a night because this sucks. People who actually feel empathy for others would never consider doing that to someone else. It's not called the Golden Rule without reason.

What I see is people who feel no empathy for others, specifically you and a couple others, and I think that because your logic regularly requires that to be true to work. And the fact that you don't even notice that is also telling.

But at the same time, not everyone who's fine with rolling for everything is ok with it for the same reasons Hazek/Nordok wants it to be the default. Not talking about those people here.

The golden rule works both ways. If you invoke it in the "the warrior NEEDS the fbss because it makes his character better but the magician is just greedy and wants to sell it" way but not also in the "the magician can buy all kinds of things he NEEDS with the plat from selling the fbss" way... you're not being logically consistent. At that point you're just using the rule when it brings about the result you want, not because you actually understand or believe in the rule.

[Hazek]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The golden rule works both ways. If you invoke it in the "the warrior NEEDS the fbss because it makes his character better but the magician is just greedy and wants to sell it" way but not also in the "the magician can buy all kinds of things he NEEDS with the plat from selling the fbss" way... you're not being logically consistent. At that point you're just using the rule when it brings about the result you want, not because you actually understand or believe in the rule.

I agree. That's why I don't invoke that and I always say that everyone should roll regardless of who can equip it. But if the group is dumb and won't be convinced then I'm not gunna waste time arguing with them and might as well use their irrational rules to my advantage since there's no other option besides disbanding.

[Polycaster]

Originally Posted by Hazek [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its a logical fact that trading for an item you can use is the same as equipping the original. Yet some people are too dumb to understand that utterly simple concept.

It is not the same, both economically and psychologically.

Psychologically, there is much greater satisfaction in camping something yourself like this was a game rather than buying it in EC like it was a trip to Walmart.

Economically, selling an item adds an extra step which consumes time thereby decreasing the efficiency of the transaction.

Whether you wish to maximize the GDP or the GDE (gross domestic enjoyment) of Norrath NBG is the most efficient of economic systems.

[Hazek]

Originally Posted by Polycaster [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is not the same, both economically and psychologically.

Psychologically, there is much greater satisfaction in camping something yourself like this was a game rather than buying it in EC like it was a trip to Walmart.

Economically, selling an item adds an extra step which consumes time thereby decreasing the efficiency of the transaction.

Whether you wish to maximize the GDP or the GDE (gross domestic enjoyment) of Norrath NBG is the most efficient of economic systems.

You mean have other people camp it for you.

Or are you gunna camp an item by yourself and be like, "okay guys NBG"

**A Magic Die is rolled by Polycaster.
**It could have been any number from 0 to 100, but this time it turned up a 4.

**A Magic Die is rolled by Polycaster.
**It could have been any number from 0 to 100, but this time it turned up a 69.

"grats Polycaster!"
"thanks"
"here you can have it"
"oh wow ty love you"
"love you too"

Lol

And you know what else adds an extra step? Not getting anything to begin with.