The Resist System Balance Thread

[Macken]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry to break up you guy's festival of idiots concerning Line of Sigh Checks, but once again Wehrmacht is right and Macken is wrong. Confirmed by Null himself, as well as about 10 other people. Unless the server is supposed to emulate Everquest 1 month before Planes of Power release, then it should have 2 LoS checks:

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Originally Posted by Macken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry bro already been confirmed by Macken himself.

It's hard to really understand what Null means.

If He is saying that a begin of cast los was added sept 2002, I would say that sounds about correct.

If he is saying that end of cast los was added sept 2002, then he is dead wrong.

About velious time on SZ, they experimented with end los for about 2 weeks or so and then canned it. Why? i don't know. I always assumed it was because they realized it was ridiculous. If you had spent any time playing an int caster, you would realize this already and know your memory is confused based just on the fact alone that it is crazy unbalancing.

But what i do know and remember well is casting through walls during the early days. I would sit in the goblin basement in HHK and type /pet target name. My animation would grab anyones target in the zone no matter how far. (worked in all zones) I acquired target and nuked once. Xebekn the necro would then cast one dot, wouldnt even use pet. Poor neuts didn't even know where it was coming from. People would cry out Xebekn! where are you? But couldn't come through kos mobs to find him. Couldn't find him upstairs. We did it all the time for months on end. (probably why they added begin cast los lol) Xebekn wracked up coins. You think im going to forget that?

When someone would find us, I would run up two flights and into a room. And nuke through the wall whoever i had on target last if they followed.
In Crystal caverns down in the city, thats how you fought. Get a target, go in a room and hope they stay in range.

The list goes on and on.

When did they add begin cast los? sept 2002 close to luclin/PoP sounds good to me. When did they add end of cast los permanantly? NEVER bro NEVER.
Even though i havn't played live in years, as far as i know, its still like that today. And until someone like Sniperfire who would know comes on and tells me different. Thats the way it is even right now bro.

The point is wehrmacht, as usual you are wrong AGAIN.

If it would make you feel better I would admit it doesn't even matter that you are wrong AGAIN. It doesn't matter that it was always like that on live and still is today. (no end of cast los). All that matters is that it would be stupid to have end of cast los period. Whos gonna port you bro? We can't all be melee. Why must you insist on engineering us all that way?

[fiegi]

this wehrmacht fella needs to get a dick

[Macken]

or a memory

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Macken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's hard to really understand what Null means.

It's actually very easy to understand what he means. He said it pretty clearly, that during classic, two LOS checks existed which is why it's like that and it wasn't changed till PoP. I used walls to avoid LOS check on spells the entire time from level 1-60 on SZ so it matches exactly what I experienced.

Originally Posted by lethdar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However once melee attain gear the table quickly turns. Even in classic vztz heavy melee groups would savage same number groups of casters in guild pvp, I mean, it wasn't even close.

That issue is due to everyone being raid buffed with resists. I already posted how to solve that problem in the original post:

- Malo, Mala, & Tash - while debuffed by either of these spell lines, they do their normal debuff value as well as nullifying the effects of any cold, fire, magic, and poison resist buffs you have up until it wears off. This would affect bards too, so no more invincible training machines. (nullify magic resist buffs only for Tash obviously)

[Macken]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's actually very easy to understand what he means. He said it pretty clearly, that during classic, two LOS checks existed which is why it's like that and it wasn't changed till PoP.




This is wrong because I used walls to avoid LOS check on spells the entire time from level 1-60 on SZ. You claim it wasn't like that due to some buggy exploit spot you found in HHK. HHK also has spots you can stand to be immune to melee attack from NPC's. Wasn't your friend Xebeken also banned for using MQ2 on TZVZ? Maybe that might have something to do with your "experience".

Show us the quotes bro, show us the quotes.

You los'd mages bro, bolts bro.

Buggy spots were everywhere there were walls, dungeons, cities... you name it. The Bug was in every spot you could stand in, and every zone you could stand in. There was no x,y axis spot it didn't work in bro.


So sorry again bro.

[Bombfist]

Unless the server is supposed to emulate Everquest 1 month before Planes of Power release, then it should have 2 LoS checks:

I'd assume the server is emulating everquest with something the devs can get as close to a balance that a majority of people agree on.

0 pipe dreams, 0 reference to what individuals want, but a reasonable balance that takes into consideration several opinions on how it "should" be to get close to a balance.

I'm sure every input will be taken, but at the end of the day i doubt we're going to see an EQPVP server emulating classic pvp.

As an example since we're talking about LoS, Null actually implemented a system which had 2 line of sight checks, one at the start, and if the target moved behind a wall the last check reduced the range of the spell by 50%.

I think it was fair, and in the middle, you can argue either way, if you don't think from a point of view where you take in everybodys opinion, that this wasn't a great balance, then you don't want balance.

I don't see why we should regress when changes were obviously made after mistakes were made, there are a lot of pvp balancing issues that were changed on live i don't see why we should ignore the obvious ones which fucked up pvp.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Bombfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sure every input will be taken, but at the end of the day i doubt we're going to see an EQPVP server emulating classic pvp..

It wasn't a question of balance. He was stating that during this time period, there was only 1 LoS check. He was obviously wrong as usual. I pulled up that null post and made him look retarded, hence why he briefly stopped spamming the forum with jibberish.

Originally Posted by Bombfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As an example since we're talking about LoS, Null actually implemented a system which had 2 line of sight checks, one at the start, and if the target moved behind a wall the last check reduced the range of the spell by 50%.

When everyone on the server is playing mages that have a cast range of 300, that really does nothing.

Originally Posted by Bombfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see why we should regress when changes were obviously made after mistakes were made

Who says it's a mistake? Just like Knuckle said on the post I linked, it allows casters to not only dominate outside but in dungeons as well. It really depends on how much damage casters are allowed to land and if they can spam stun, blind, root, whirl till you hurl spells, and other bullshit.

TZVZ box during classic wasn't called CASTER'S PARADISE for no reason.

[lethdar]

Casters are going to own at the start of a server no matter what. There is nothing you can do about this and it was true on sz, on rz, on every server.

However once melee attain gear the table quickly turns. Even in classic vztz heavy melee groups would savage same number groups of casters in guild pvp, I mean, it wasn't even close. Have a good melee assist train would crush anything, for an example of this is the last vztz box, see:

http://emu.pwned.com/showthread.php?...ght=permafrost

Where we had a melee heavy force assisting against a large mostly caster force. Outnumbered 1.5-2 : 1 the melee heavy force still crushed the casters.

Top geared melees in old world dominate casters, and once kunark comes out its just not even close. Even with a resist system that benefited casters more than on live they were still dominated.

[Xantille]

Originally Posted by lethdar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Casters are going to own at the start of a server no matter what. There is nothing you can do about this and it was true on sz, on rz, on every server.

However once melee attain gear the table quickly turns. Even in classic vztz heavy melee groups would savage same number groups of casters in guild pvp, I mean, it wasn't even close. Have a good melee assist train would crush anything, for an example of this is the last vztz box, see:

http://emu.pwned.com/showthread.php?...ght=permafrost

Where we had a melee heavy force assisting against a large mostly caster force. Outnumbered 1.5-2 : 1 the melee heavy force still crushed the casters.

Top geared melees in old world dominate casters, and once kunark comes out its just not even close. Even with a resist system that benefited casters more than on live they were still dominated.

This.

Also I'm v happy lethdar has started posting here.

[Haul]

The snare and root systems on vztz emulated unfortunately were fucked up and altered from classic big time, way to freakin easy to land. Guessing they won't be that bad on red99.