Why are p99 devs trying to make Green non-classic and ignoring proof?

[Topgunben]

I actually agree with OP.

As much as i hate the idea of someone camping a mob for hours, only to be out DPS`d at the last moment, too much red tape can ruin the classic experience.

These rules seek to make things more fair, but the allure of EQ has always been the unpredictable nature of the game, otherwise, I wouldn't fizzle 11 times in a row trying to cast feign death.

[Demoraliser]

Originally Posted by Topgunben [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

otherwise, I wouldn't fizzle 11 times in a row trying to cast feign death.

No, that's how nilbog and rogean want it coded actually.
See my sig.

[soronil]

Originally Posted by Topgunben [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I actually agree with OP.

As much as i hate the idea of someone camping a mob for hours, only to be out DPS`d at the last moment, too much red tape can ruin the classic experience.

These rules seek to make things more fair, but the allure of EQ has always been the unpredictable nature of the game, otherwise, I wouldn't fizzle 11 times in a row trying to cast feign death.

You do understand that this will only be in effect for very few drops. Only.drops that the community already knows will cause a lot of problems and just be toxic 100% of the time. I would be surprised if the number of items this applies to is more than like 5. For now all way know is manastone and guise.

[skorge]

OP, read this and then you may change your mind:

To start, in 1999/2000, nobody knew that the guise would be changed. People did not bother farming it for all of their alts because they thought that it would be in the game FOREVER (some people didn't even loot it on their main because it's a common drop on an easy camp - they could come back later and do it with a friend). A classic server can not recreate this. People know. The whole P99 server knows. It is impossible unless you have one of those Men In Black thingies that wipe your brain. No server will ever be true to classic because of this.

Adding a feature such as list actually helps a classic server in the sense of it reduces the number of items on the server emulating classic.

Image if in 1999, everyone knew the exact date the manastone was going to be removed from the start of the server? IT WOULD BE CHAOS! Did that happen? No. But if it did, rule sets would have been changed, no doubt. Here's what's crazy: I would even venture out to say that most people didn't even want the manastone back then. It can be hard to believe this, but put yourself in these people's shoes: It was an easy camp, several dropped a day...you think to yourself "I can always come back and camp one later. It's not worth much and I can't even use it." Well little did these people know it would be removed from the game. This changes EVERYTHING.

Almost every item, minus rubicite was given no fair warning. Rubicite was only given 1-2 weeks. A rubicite breastplate only dropped once every 12-24 hours on average in classic (way rarer than manastone) - this is nothing like the manastone where several drop a day. All other big item camps were group content (GEBs, Yaks, etc) or super rare pops (ie Bilge, GBS, etc).

This leaves you with exp camps and people KSing for exp. Yes this went on in classic (early 1999). But after reading the above, the rules Verant created would have been changed from the get go if people knew guises and manastones would be removed from the game (as this would create a mad rush to loot and secure them - the faster people level the more manastones/guises they can get).

I hope this helps you.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by skorge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In 1999/2000, nobody knew that the guise would be changed. People did not bother farming it for all of their alts because they thought that it would be in the game FOREVER (some people didn't even loot it on their main because it's a common drop on an easy camp - they could come back later and do it with a friend). A classic server can not recreate this. People know. The whole P99 server knows. It is impossible unless you have one of those Men In Black thingies that wipe your brain. No server will ever be true to classic because of this.

Adding a feature such as list actually helps a classic server in the sense of it reduces the number of items on the server emulating classic.

Your first paragraph is how everything works for an "exact code" recreated server, so that's completely irrelevant.

Your second paragraph is absolutely false. Lists don't reduce the number of items on the server at all. They will be farmed the same. It only changes who is allowed to get the item, which in this case will be people who share accounts and sit around doing nothing, instead of being able to fight for it. Fighting for camps is Classic EQ, and p99 has now removed a large part of what made classic EQ feel alive, and replaced it with an unclassic WoW-esque mechanic.

1999-era competition for camps is actually the one thing that slightly reduces the amount of items on the server, because it means people will sometimes have to spend time doing something other than killing the NPC as soon as it spawns (ie, managing adds that have been brought to the camp).

Originally Posted by skorge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If in 1999, everyone knew the exact date the manastone was going to be removed from the start of the server? IT WOULD BE CHAOS! Did that happen? No.

It did happen, though, that element of chaos and fighting for NPC's. Not in terms of everyone rushing to the manastone camp and fighting for it, but in terms of the gameplay in general, and disputes that would happen in ANY area in the game. People were fighting over freaking orc and gnoll spawns in 1999. THAT was classic Everquest.

Originally Posted by skorge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would even venture out to say that most people didn't even want the manastone back then.

What a ridiculous line of thought. Everyone would have wanted to get it, if they knew about it. Most people simply didn't know about the item, much less where it dropped from.

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Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pre-PNP (1999) GMs were free to enforce their server as they saw fit, whether through neglect or meddling.

No they weren't "free" to do that. There were specific rules in place by the game devs - Verant. If a GM didn't follow it, then a player could contact real-world CSR about it, and that GM could be removed from their position. Most players simply didn't get involved with such things, but regardless, "kill stealing" was allowed on EVERY server. Server-specific GM's had no allowable authority to stop it, and if they did abuse their power, then the player could take action against it.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If anything you should be mad the 2000 PNP isn't enforced on blue and you should be mad we aren't strong armed into sharing via 'turn taking' on EVERYTHING.

Oh, but I am upset about that too, and have talked about it many times. p99 has the worst possible ruleset, not just in terms of the gameplay it creates, but it terms of being true to classic.

[aaezil]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your first paragraph is how everything works for an "exact code" recreated server, so that's completely irrelevant.

Your second paragraph is absolutely false. Lists don't reduce the number of items on the server at all. They will be farmed the same. It only changes who is allowed to get the item, which in this case will be people who share accounts and sit around doing nothing, instead of being able to fight for it. Fighting for camps is Classic EQ, and p99 has now removed a large part of what made classic EQ feel alive, and replaced it with an unclassic WoW-esque mechanic.

1999-era competition for camps is actually the one thing that slightly reduces the amount of items on the server, because it means people will sometimes have to spend time doing something other than killing the NPC as soon as it spawns (ie, managing adds that have been brought to the camp).



It did happen, though, that element of chaos and fighting for NPC's. Not in terms of everyone rushing to the manastone camp and fighting for it, but in terms of the gameplay in general, and disputes that would happen in ANY area in the game. People were fighting over freaking orc and gnoll spawns in 1999. THAT was classic Everquest.



What a ridiculous line of thought. Everyone would have wanted to get it, if they knew about it. Most people simply didn't know about the item, much less where it dropped from.

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No they weren't "free" to do that. There were specific rules in place by the game devs - Verant. If a GM didn't follow it, then a player could contact real-world CSR about it, and that GM could be removed from their position. Most players simply didn't get involved with such things, but regardless, "kill stealing" was allowed on EVERY server. Server-specific GM's had no allowable authority to stop it, and if they did abuse their power, then the player could take action against it.



Oh, but I am upset about that too, and have talked about it many times. p99 has the worst possible ruleset, not just in terms of the gameplay it creates, but it terms of being true to classic.

If you hate the rules here go play another game maybe try bitching on their forums too

[slowpoke68]

As someone else pointed out OP, you can sit this one out in protest, and so can anyone else who feels the need to be an utter and complete dick about a bunch of circa 1999 pixels on a computer screen.

[pink grapefruit]

Still can't believe they're making green a pve server. How do they get away with this nonsense?

The people want pvp omfg.

[Jadian]

Sheesh, someone needs to be less aspy and go play on their own server

[stewe]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The first year of Everquest was characterized by DPS being king when it came to camping things. Nobody owned any camp/NPC and nobody was entitled to anything, unless they earned it by doing the most damage to the target they wanted. Not everyone would try to play like that, many people chose to avoid competing somewhere that was "already camped", but it's the FACT of how the game was and how it was enforced. "Killing stealing" did not exist in terms of breaking any kind of rule (so long as it wasn't someone stalking another player everywhere), it was only a term that some players used to define competition, and a way of trying to blacklist the opposition.

Aside from the fact that the original EQ devs said they wanted a hands-off approach, and competing via damage for NPCs was explicitly allowed, until instituting the Play Nice Policy in 2000, there are also in-era documentations of these facts from players. Look at these quotes from an article written August 1999: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/edit...l_Stealing.htm








The player who wrote this was just Level 30, yet already had ample experience with having to regularly fight over NPC's. It was a thing, all over the place. An integral part of the game, and of the roleplaying aspect of the game even. Stop trying to deny it.

This player, who describes themself as "good-aligned" and "anti KS", also advocates creating trains as a method of competition:



Again, something that was part of the game. They mention that by this point in EQ, you were not allowed to explicitly train directly onto a player. But fearing a mob or running mobs through a zone, using legal pathing, with the intent of dumping them somewhere to create chaos? Allowed.

The game is supposed to be wild and unpredictable, fully interactive, with players being able to make impactful decisions on the gameplay and society. It's not supposed to be a stagnant pixel farm. The current proposed item camp rule for Green, turns the game into something more mechanical than ever, a literal pixel treadmill. Just /list yourself and go afk in a zone all day, never having to fight anything, and just getting the item you want eventually. This absolute mindlessness and on-the-rails, spoon-fed gameplay is not at all what classic EQ ever was or was supposed to be.

At the very least, the 2000-era Play Nice Policy made people actually have to kill the NPCs during their turn in the rotation, and have to pay attention to the camp if they didn't want to die from adds or someone else's failed pull, when sitting there waiting their turn. Play the damn game!

So basically you want to be a jerk cause it is classic, no thanks