Rooted Dragons and FTE foot races. Failed experiments

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Endonde [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I forgot that you are the rotations expert, and only your opinion on the subject is right, my mistake.

The term "rotation" means you rotate content: guild A gets the mob/zone this week, guild B gets it next week, etc. Please don't pretend this is some made-up "Loramin term" that I'm springing on you: this is how everyone (except apparently you) uses the word. The http://wiki.project1999.com/Plane_of_Sky_Raid_Rotation, for instance, is a long-standing example of an (actual) rotation on Project 1999: the zone rotates between guilds.

I liked Class C/R in some respects, but it was not a rotation ... it was just one of many failed unclassic raid metas that have been tried.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Wonkie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

wasn't it something silly like Class C(competitive), FFA, Class R(rotation)

so yeah a system that only rotates 1/3 of the mobs would be destined to fail. it was an effort made in bad faith to 'disprove' the dialectic.

I remember them not being rotations (even with class R guilds it wasn't like "A-Team you've got Goreanaire on Tuesday"). I remember them being more like "competition groups": class C guilds competed with other class C guilds and likewise class R guilds with other class R guilds. It's entirely possible my memory is off though, as this was awhile ago and I smoke a lot of pot.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The term "rotation" means you rotate content: guild A gets the mob/zone this week, guild B gets it next week, etc. Please don't pretend this is some made-up "Loramin term" that I'm springing on you: this is how everyone (except apparently you) uses the word. The http://wiki.project1999.com/Plane_of_Sky_Raid_Rotation, for instance, is a long-standing example of an (actual) rotation on Project 1999: the zone rotates between guilds.

I liked Class C/R in some respects, but it was not a rotation ... it was just one of many failed unclassic raid metas that have been tried.

It was the only way the competitive guilds would even come to the table to discuss anything involving a rotation.

[aaezil]

Originally Posted by ajohnymous [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The game itself lacks fundamental infrastructure for raiding to make sense.

Take a look at what Blizzard does best: taking a game with a solid concept, polishing it up, and making it more appealing for a wider player base. They took one look at Everquest dungeons and raids and went, NOPE! Instances, baby! It worked so well that later EQ expansions added them.

On top of that, we've had years of "solutions" where the server developers fix one problem by adding another. "We have a serious rat problem on the island, let's release a shit ton of mongooses to kill them all! Okay, great, what are we going to do to keep the mongoose population in check?" 30 years later...

Hyjal, you can point fingers at certain groups of players and specific problems in specific zones, but what it comes down to is the game's infrastructure. P99 is unique, in both it's appeal and problems, that is simply comes down to how well people work together and communicate. Unfortunately, we all know how well that goes.

Instancing wasnt the magic potion that saved everquest. It makes the world disjointed and kills competition.

Its the constant flow of new expansions that really makes EQ raiding make sense. The no lifers could go poopsock the latest and greatest pixels and the cool normal people could raid more at their own pace.

Eq just was not designed for time locked Velious and no amount of band aid server rules will make end game any better here.

[Endonde]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The term "rotation" means you rotate content: guild A gets the mob/zone this week, guild B gets it next week, etc. Please don't pretend this is some made-up "Loramin term" that I'm springing on you: this is how everyone (except apparently you) uses the word. The http://wiki.project1999.com/Plane_of_Sky_Raid_Rotation, for instance, is a long-standing example of an (actual) rotation on Project 1999: the zone rotates between guilds.

I liked Class C/R in some respects, but it was not a rotation ... it was just one of many failed unclassic raid metas that have been tried.

That is literally how the Class R rotation worked...

They went down a list to determine what guild got the mob that week, they were restricted to 1/3rd of the mobs but before the rotation all the casual guilds combined would barely get any raid targets at all so 1/3rd was a huge step up. The problems that popped up wouldn't have been solved by adding more mobs, it might have taken longer for the problems to develop but they still would have developed.

[Wonkie]

Originally Posted by Endonde [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problems that popped up wouldn't have been solved by adding more mobs

how come

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Endonde [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is literally how the Class R rotation worked...

They went down a list to determine what guild got the mob that week, they were restricted to 1/3rd of the mobs but before the rotation all the casual guilds combined would barely get any raid targets at all so 1/3rd was a huge step up. The problems that popped up wouldn't have been solved by adding more mobs, it might have taken longer for the problems to develop but they still would have developed.

Completion groups != rotations ... unless you think every guild except the top two are the same guild [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Wonkie]

Originally Posted by Wonkie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

how come

found the answer: it was a baseless assertion

[Danth]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I remember them not being rotations (even with class R guilds it wasn't like "A-Team you've got Goreanaire on Tuesday"). I remember them being more like "competition groups": class C guilds competed with other class C guilds and likewise class R guilds with other class R guilds. It's entirely possible my memory is off though, as this was awhile ago and I smoke a lot of pot.

What you're remembering is how the rule was formally spelled out. In practice all of the "class R" guilds decided as a player agreement to treat their portion of the spawns as a straight-up rotation. It worked decently for awhile. It was later on when a couple of the largest "class R" guilds decided to break the rotation that the project admins decided to wholly scrap the system for Velious launch.

--------------------------------------------

P99's raid rules, regardless of the specific rules used, will always be awful for the majority of players as long as the admins here continue thinking of EQ raiding as inter-guild competition. Fortunately it's a big game and there's a lot to do outside raids.

Danth

[Psyborg]

If it predated Velious launch then it hardly means much, truthfully.