Heard that velious will be the last expansion, is this true?

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Qwinny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

L.D.O.N.

Couldn't stand those damn instances. I don't know how I enjoyed WOW for 3 years, probably the company.

I remember on the collection missions when they first come out that you could get crappy luck, clear EVERYTHING in the instance and not have enough drops to complete the quest/assignment/whatever its called. Talk about frustrating.

[eqravenprince]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree, retrieving corpses is fun to me for two reasons:

1) The actual retrieval, it can involve being sneaky, invisible, and solid understanding of zone and NPCs in zone. It can also involve soliciting help, creating ties with other players. It teaches responsibility and patience. You are forced to man up that you made a mistake and learn from it.

2) The heightened fun that comes with the risk of having to retrieve that corpse. When there is no punishment for dieing, who cares. If you crawl deep into a dungeon and start playing loose and fast you are risking a lot and it makes the game more enjoyable for me.

Spawning with full equipment is dull and takes fun out of the game. Corpse runs were and still are genius, may they stay forever.

I can agree to that it does create additional responsibility and patience, too much I think. Losing experience and getting back to the group already creates responsibility and patience, but you add to it by having to do it without equipment. I would be agreeable to adding more experience lost if I could respawn with my equipment. There is nothing fun about a corpse retrieval, only a sigh of relief when you get all your hard earned equipment back.

[Massive Marc]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree, retrieving corpses is fun to me for two reasons:

1) The actual retrieval, it can involve being sneaky, invisible, and solid understanding of zone and NPCs in zone. It can also involve soliciting help, creating ties with other players. It teaches responsibility and patience. You are forced to man up that you made a mistake and learn from it.

2) The heightened fun that comes with the risk of having to retrieve that corpse. When there is no punishment for dieing, who cares. If you crawl deep into a dungeon and start playing loose and fast you are risking a lot and it makes the game more enjoyable for me.

Spawning with full equipment is dull and takes fun out of the game. Corpse runs were and still are genius, may they stay forever.

I disagree completely.

1: Once you get passed all that knowledge you still have to get your corpse, which sucks. 1+ hours retrieving your corpse is shitty and bad game design.

2: There is a penalty in place, it's called Exp Loss.

Your type of fun sounds lame.

[Kraftwerk]

Originally Posted by Massive Marc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2: There is a penalty in place, it's called Exp Loss

When someone was lvl 50 w/ max exp or when they are lvl 60 w/ max exp the loss of a yellow bar on death becomes a marginal annoyance. Having to retrieve everything rather than just bam spawning with everything is the true penalty for dieing. Removing obstacles in game is a slippery slope and I find corpse retrieval to be in itself fun and the risk it poses enhances the fun in the rest of the game.

[eqravenprince]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When someone was lvl 50 w/ max exp or when they are lvl 60 w/ max exp the loss of a yellow bar on death becomes a marginal annoyance. Having to retrieve everything rather than just bam spawning with everything is the true penalty for dieing. Removing obstacles in game is a slippery slope and I find corpse retrieval to be in itself fun and the risk it poses enhances the fun in the rest of the game.

I'm surprised to hear people actually like corpse retrieval. Imagine you are a high level Warrior for a minute and don't have a permanent Cleric in your group. It is not fun to sit at a zone line waiting for your group member who can cast invis come back to get you. It is not fun to ask in /ooc for an invis after your group broke up after a group wipe. It is not fun when the invis wears off halfway to your corpse and you are trapped and probably going to die again. And in some cases where it is impossible to get your corpse back that night, it is not fun logging off without getting back to your corpse. None of that is fun, it is a timesink, that is all.

[Massive Marc]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm surprised to hear people actually like corpse retrieval. Imagine you are a high level Warrior for a minute and don't have a permanent Cleric in your group. It is not fun to sit at a zone line waiting for your group member who can cast invis come back to get you. It is not fun to ask in /ooc for an invis after your group broke up after a group wipe. It is not fun when the invis wears off halfway to your corpse and you are trapped and probably going to die again. And in some cases where it is impossible to get your corpse back that night, it is not fun logging off without getting back to your corpse. None of that is fun, it is a timesink, that is all.

Exactly. I can't think of one time in the last 10 years, when I'm like:

"I can't wait to go retrieve my corpse. It's the highlight of my night. It so very challenging and rewarding"

[yorumi]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm surprised to hear people actually like corpse retrieval. Imagine you are a high level Warrior for a minute and don't have a permanent Cleric in your group. It is not fun to sit at a zone line waiting for your group member who can cast invis come back to get you. It is not fun to ask in /ooc for an invis after your group broke up after a group wipe. It is not fun when the invis wears off halfway to your corpse and you are trapped and probably going to die again. And in some cases where it is impossible to get your corpse back that night, it is not fun logging off without getting back to your corpse. None of that is fun, it is a timesink, that is all.

Ok it's a timesink. So lets remove slow travel, make everything sold on merchants be 1cp, remove exp, make every monster have 100% chance to drop anything on it's loot table, and make everything soloable because finding a group can suck. I'm not sure I'd specifically call corpse retrieval something I like, but a game without pain is a very very very boring game.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Massive Marc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly. I can't think of one time in the last 10 years, when I'm like:

"I can't wait to go retrieve my corpse. It's the highlight of my night. It so very challenging and rewarding"

You are looking at corpse retrieval the wrong way. A CR is:
1) A crappy experience that takes way too long to be over and involves jumping through too many hoops.
2) An experience that when avoided by some miracle (gogo CC!, joining the purple CH club, etc.), makes that miracle THAT much more spectacular.

I'm not going to argue that the CR sucks, but if you keep pulling the bad apples off of the tree, eventually you won't even have good ones left to eat.

[Massive Marc]

Originally Posted by yorumi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok it's a timesink. So lets remove slow travel, make everything sold on merchants be 1cp, remove exp, make every monster have 100% chance to drop anything on it's loot table, and make everything soloable because finding a group can suck. I'm not sure I'd specifically call corpse retrieval something I like, but a game without pain is a very very very boring game.

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are looking at corpse retrieval the wrong way. A CR is:
1) A crappy experience that takes way too long to be over and involves jumping through too many hoops.
2) An experience that when avoided by some miracle (gogo CC!, joining the purple CH club, etc.), makes that miracle THAT much more spectacular.

I'm not going to argue that the CR sucks, but if you keep pulling the bad apples off of the tree, eventually you won't even have good ones left to eat.

This slippery slope bullshit is exactly that... bullshit.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Massive Marc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This slippery slope bullshit is exactly that... bullshit.

No. Its not. The majority of people play P99 to return to times when things were difficult. If they wanted a game where the CR was easy, they'd go play WoW. It truely is the little things that ARE difficult that make classic Everquest the MMO that other MMOs just cannot live up to.