Legacy items on Green99 - pros and cons

[Champion_Standing]

So we rotating CB throne room or what boys? Getting my plans for next winter together now.

[loramin]

Well first off this is just my quick idea, and again I imagine others can do better. But ...

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If not a list then I suppose the "waiting" players would all need to stay right at or very near the camp location.

Exactly (especially in my imaginary scenario of adding custom code which announces a random camp winner out of the nearby PCs ... and BTW that message wouldn't have to bother the whole zone like FTE messages; it could be localized to the same area it picks PCs from).

If you want to camp a legacy item you have to hang out and wait close to the camp until it frees up; no "free pixels" for getting on a list and showing up at the right time. Not that I personally have anything against lists per say, but they add extra complexity and we need a simple (and simple to enforce) system.

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Say there are 10 people and just /rand 10. Then go alphabetically.The main "killing" people will have to be grouped so they can see the loot messages.

I wouldn't even say "go alphabetically", because then you have to start a list right there, and again I think we want a simple system. So if Player A loots his manastone, and players B and C are waiting and B wins the roll, then Player D shows up, C and D would have an equal chance of getting the camp when B gets their stone.

B doesn't get any advantage on the second roll just because they lost the first roll.

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But what's to stop the first group of players there from just telling the other players who want in that no manastones have been dropping?

Again, under my proposal there are no groups at these camps. Maybe to avoid shenanigans that could even become an explicit "you are not allowed to be in a group while doing these camps (though you are welcome to have friends help as long as they don't "KS" you). This would be easy for players to enforce: if they see anyone other than the camp holder loot a corpse from the camp they /petition (or, if custom code is used, groups could be allowed since the server could only allow the designated camp winner to loot ... but I'm not sure how crazy the staff is going to want to go with custom code, if at all).

Once the camp holder gets their item, it's a solved problem; the GMs already enforce a "get your ring and you're out of there" policy on camps like OOT cyclops today. If they lie and say "nothing dropped" that lie will become apparent as soon as another manastone drops that they can't loot.

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is the killing group going to required to /rand on the items or are they allowed to dictate who gets the drop either by an arbitrary order or perhaps the order they arrived in the group?

Again no groups, but yes the individual would be required to random. This is the essential part to prevent lockouts.

Sure it means that someone who shows up at 11AM and loses a lot has the exact same chance as someone who showed up at 11pm ... but that seems like a small downside to having an otherwise perfectly fair system that's enforceable (and it's exactly how many other things on the server, eg. Scout roll, work).

[DMN]

This sounds much more complicated than i suspected. imagine the first group of players making their way to the eye and suddenly they have to start obeying all these weird rules. Also the EE is going to be quite a difficult solo kill so having questionable "support" from other players(who probabaly don't even want the plaer to survive) is probably going to lead to deaths and confusion. And how to deal with potential trains if people aren't even in a group working as team? More confusion, deaths, frustrated players.

It almost sounds like in your head you are imagining level 60 players camping the EE or something. Not a couple poorly geared level 30s.

And this system would certainly require the server to give some sort of looting message.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And this system would certainly require the server to give some sort of looting message.

Not at all; it absolutely could be done with /randoms. The custom code would just simplify things a bit. But we do rolls all the time on this server, both for loot and for stuff like Scout, with no problem.

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This sounds much more complicated than i suspected. imagine the first group of players making their way to the eye and suddenly they have to start obeying all these weird rules. Also the EE is going to be quite a difficult solo kill so having questionable "support" from other players(who probabaly don't even want the plaer to survive) is probably going to lead to deaths and confusion. And how to deal with potential trains if people aren't even in a group working as team? More confusion, deaths, frustrated players.

Like I said (and repeated), this was just a quick thought, and the "no groups" part was especially quick.

In retrospect, it isn't even needed: you can still allow groups as long as one person is the known camp holder, because (as I even noted) if anyone is waiting for the camp they can easily see if someone other than the camp holder loots the corpse.

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It almost sounds like in your head you are imagining level 60 players camping the EE or something. Not a couple poorly geared level 30s.

Let's be honest: on day 3 or 4 these camps might be done by poorly geared level 30s, but this is P99: very quickly these camps will be dominated by solo 60s.

But nothing about these rule in any way gives the solo 60 any advantage. If anything the group has the advantage (kind of).

Let's say a group of four (to make my math easy) and a single soloer both show up just as someone else finishes the camp. The group has an 80% chance that one of their members will get the camp. If they do, the soloer has to sit and wait doing nothing while the group has fun clearing the camp.

Then as soon as the first group member gets their item, there's another random, and again odds are the group will win it, and will go back to getting XP, killing mobs, having fun, and also getting that one group member an item.

Of course the soloer still has a chance, just a lower one .. which I would argue is as it should be.

[aaezil]

How about just play nice dont be a jerk bag?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How about just play nice dont be a jerk bag?

That's always the glib response to rules threads. But as fun as it is to say, it completely ignores the basic fact that if you grab five random players you are going to get five different definitions of "jerk bag." Heck, if we're being realistic, probably more than five, like say two per person, because people naturally change their opinion based on whether they're fighting to keep a mob or fighting to take it from someone else [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Of course it would be awesome if the "Play Nice Policies" could literally just be "Play nice." But we need explicit rules precisely because they put everyone on the same (literal, rules) page as to what "being a jerk bag" means.

[aaezil]

If you need to know what that means you are the problem

[Wonkie]

wipe blue so all legacy items are obtained in a truly classic world on green before being transferred to blue at the end of the timeline

this is how you save blue

[Muggens]

If they wiped blue I would "place in the oars" as we say here, as quadding my wizard to 60 is a "years in progress" kinda thing

Gotta leave blue as is for us casuals who enjoy the grind at our own pace =)

[Coridan]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's be honest: on day 3 or 4 these camps might be done by poorly geared level 30s, but this is P99: very quickly these camps will be dominated by solo 60s

Aren't they all removed by Kunark? Guise and Rubicite certainly are