Need Guide ruling - Please end the madness

[Tethler]

Originally Posted by Veleria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honest question. I don't know this rule. If I am grouped in Seb while Trak Spawns and I continue grouping without participating in the kill, is that something that will cause my guild to be disqualified? I don't have the gear to participate anyhow and am currently focused on leveling/gearing for future raiding.

My understanding is that yes, you can. However, if you assist in the kill and you are caught then your guild will suffer the consequences. Since quite a few guilds do compete for trak, the majority of those players won't xp there during the window, so it's much harder to find a group even for the people who have no intention of going after trak.

[aaezil]

If only the rules were clearly and concisely documented somewhere. Sorry they are not. Maybe someone is insane enough to go through the 9 years of forum post rulings/petition rulings and compile a list of zone/raid specific rules, but barring that im afraid this information is nigh impossible to find for the average person.

Good luck and i hope things change for the better!

[Bardp1999]

Originally Posted by Veleria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honest question. I don't know this rule. If I am grouped in Seb while Trak Spawns and I continue grouping without participating in the kill, is that something that will cause my guild to be disqualified? I don't have the gear to participate anyhow and am currently focused on leveling/gearing for future raiding.

This is the problem, no you are not allowed to XP in any zone your guild is actively contesting because 8 years of Kunark brought about some shity tactics by the 10 guilds trying to kill 5 mobs every week.

The rules have devolved to where you can not even be past the entrance or you disqualify your guild entirely due to the 2 tracker rule. Any guild can have 2 trackers past the Zone Line. If you are past the zone line, you are treated as a tracker. Even if you have no intention whatsoever of participating in the kill (let alone socking the @#$%ing spawn), you are screwing your guild over if they are wanting to contest a raid mob. Its not a matter of picking "I want to XP" or "I want to kill Trak for the 5,000,000th time", its a matter of DQing your entire guild for wanting to XP.

That's the part of the rule that needs changed. Let people actually tracking track, let people actually XPing XP.

Example, the other day we were contesting VS in KC. We had one tracker in zone and I was the only other AM member in zone, so I was allow to XP as normal because we are not breaking the tracker rule. VS spawns, I zone out and back in and I can help with the kill. In no way shape or form was I ever actually tracking but I was treated as a tracker by the simple virtue of being past the Zone Line. Its all retarded.

#MakeP99GreatAgain

@Cylock - the days of heavily contested Kunark bullshit-fest TMO tactics are long dead, lets evolve as a server and not stay rooted in the past (the irony of this statement is not lost on me)

[Veleria]

Originally Posted by Bardp1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the problem, no you are not allowed to XP in any zone your guild is actively contesting because 8 years of Kunark brought about some shity tactics by the 10 guilds trying to kill 5 mobs every week.

The rules have devolved to where you can not even be past the entrance or you disqualify your guild entirely due to the 2 tracker rule. Any guild can have 2 trackers past the Zone Line. If you are past the zone line, you are treated as a tracker. Even if you have no intention whatsoever of participating in the kill (let alone socking the @#$%ing spawn), you are screwing your guild over if they are wanting to contest a raid mob. Its not a matter of picking "I want to XP" or "I want to kill Trak for the 5,000,000th time", its a matter of DQing your entire guild for wanting to XP.

That's the part of the rule that needs changed. Let people actually tracking track, let people actually XPing XP.

Example, the other day we were contesting VS in KC. We had one tracker in zone and I was the only other AM member in zone, so I was allow to XP as normal because we are not breaking the tracker rule. VS spawns, I zone out and back in and I can help with the kill. In no way shape or form was I ever actually tracking but I was treated as a tracker by the simple virtue of being past the Zone Line. Its all retarded.

#MakeP99GreatAgain

@Cylock - the days of heavily contested Kunark bullshit-fest TMO tactics are long dead, lets evolve as a server and not stay rooted in the past (the irony of this statement is not lost on me)

Thank you for the detailed response I will avoid grouping in the zone in that case. I do not want to risk disqualifying my guild.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Bardp1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

@Cylock - the days of heavily contested Kunark bullshit-fest TMO tactics are long dead, lets evolve as a server and not stay rooted in the past (the irony of this statement is not lost on me)

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shitty cop out cylock response. Honestly expected better [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you guys are completely blaming the wrong person. Cylock's mission in life is not to make up rules so that everyone on P99 has less fun (and as he said, he's not even responsible for this rule, it's a product of P99 history).

Who you should be blaming is the guild leadership of this server. If they all said (for instance) "hey Rogean this rule is lame, and we all agree not to petition each other if someone is chilling in Sebilis and then joins a Trakkanon raid", I can all but guarantee Rogean will be ok with one less rule to enforce.

Or they could say "... and we all agree not to petition if someone is chilling in Sebilis and they don't join the raid" or "... if someone is chilling in Sebilis, a Trak raid starts, and they immediately deguild and don't join the raid". Whatever they can all agree on.

The point is, the staff has made it clear that as long as a rule change doesn't make more work for them, they have no personal investment in one arbitrary rule or another. They want everyone to have fun and enjoy raiding in EQ, and they want rules that they can easily enforce (seeing as how they're an all volunteer team with limited resources). That's it.

So again, I'm not saying it's easy to convince umpteen different prima donna guild leaders to agree on anything, but if you want to change this rule the path to doing so is through them, not through attacking the staff.

Originally Posted by Veleria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thank you for the detailed response I will avoid grouping in the zone in that case. I do not want to risk disqualifying my guild.

For what it's worth, awhile back (and the rules might have been different then) I was able to deguild and stay at the King camp while my guild did Trak. I'm honestly not sure if that was kosher then, or if it's kosher now, but it seemed to fit the spirit of the rule and I didn't get in trouble that one time. No promises it will work for you though.

[aaezil]

Shitty cop out cylock response. Honestly expected better [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[aaezil]

Guilds want common sense rules. Not this draconian shit that you cant even find rulings on easily.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

shit that you cant even find rulings on easily.

FWIW I started a wiki page awhile back to compile rulings, and everyone is welcome to contribute to it. It's far from comprehensive, but if everyone who cared about the issue added just one new ruling, it'd get comprehensive pretty fast.

Also, another wiki project on my To Do list is is combining all of the different rule sources into a single comprehensive rules document. It's going to take a lot of work (and ATM I'm focused on my new buff lines page), but again anyone is welcome to help, and once we have those two pages I think it will help bring a lot of clarity to the server rules.

[Iksar_with_a_plan]

I actually avoid sebfrom 55-60. It's part of the generic cookie cutter abc walmart brand leveling path... There are plenty of places to level 55 +, with much better exp I might add.

[Dithien]

Chardok is more fun. Enjoy it while you still can.