Evergreen State College: Collective Psychosis

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by originalman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

we were pretty much a anarchy but then we had to come together to do battle with the evil nazis before they ethnically cleansed us. after that there were nuclear weapons

hope this clarifies

smilin hard

[mickmoranis]

its perfectly legal to go live in the woods and not pay taxes, but tecmos if you think you deserve to live on streets and drink water payed for by other peoples taxes then you're gonna have a bad time.

What is different between reality and this utopia you describe?

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by mickmoranis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

its perfectly legal to go live in the woods and not pay taxes, but tecmos if you think you deserve to live on streets and drink water payed for by other peoples taxes then you're gonna have a bad time.

What is different between reality and this utopia you describe?

Lol. It's not like roads and municipal water systems are what most tax money is spent on.

Regardless, I don't want to be a free rider, I just think it's immoral to force your opinions onto others. And that's all government does. I'm perfectly happy to pay for what I want to use. I just don't want to be made to pay for what someone else thinks is a good idea.

And no, it's not legal to go live in the woods.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not that I plug my ears at the mention of anarchism and go "lalalalala", it's just that I see it as logically unsound. Anarchism denies mass cooperation which I think is absolutely integral to human prosperity and progress.

The only issue I have with "all human interaction being voluntary" is you shouldn't be able to enjoy the benefits of society (cooperation, safety, rules), without the responsibilities (taxes, civic duty, mutual aid/defense, rules). Which means if you decided you didn't want to sign the contract, you'd have to leave. Unfortunately, the planet is basically full, and all the world's resources are spoken for. We also share an environment.

By denying anarchy I just admit that violence is the way in which the contract is enforced-- if somebody breaks the rules, that causes harm, and violence (force) is society's recourse. In a perfect world the contract is voluntary, you'd be able to leave and go homestead somewhere in the frontier and make your own rules, but I just don't see it.

As I see it, all of this just comes back to the social "contract" not being anything like a contract. It's an excuse to force one group's wants onto others. You say I shouldn't get to benefit from society without paying, but how it really works out is every individual is paying for a ton of "benefits" that they don't actually want, subsidizing government inefficiency, propping up cronyism, etc. There's also tons of wiggle room for people to be free riders with VERY little incentive for anyone to do anything about it.

Privatizing everything wouldn't collapse society. People would still be able to get together and decide what they want to contribute towards a public society. But nobody would be threatened with violence by a nearly-omnipotent state to pay for any more than they actually want to... and since everything is private, individuals have incentive to make sure there aren't free riders or inefficiency, etc.

[Pokesan]

yo taxation-is-theft-dude, did the beast get his cut of you RMT gainz?

u goin prison?

[Pokesan]

Originally Posted by originalman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

zzz anyway anarchism is fucking gay dude peace

[mickmoranis]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And no, it's not legal to go live in the woods.

tell that to the FBI that has to fabricate weapon sales to arrest the hero's that do.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As I see it, all of this just comes back to the social "contract" not being anything like a contract. It's an excuse to force one group's wants onto others. You say I shouldn't get to benefit from society without paying, but how it really works out is every individual is paying for a ton of "benefits" that they don't actually want, subsidizing government inefficiency, propping up cronyism, etc. There's also tons of wiggle room for people to be free riders with VERY little incentive for anyone to do anything about it.

It's a valid criticism of the current system if you ignore the benefits of the way we do things, ie, organizations are capable of existing for reasons other than profit motive or short term whims... which has important implications for things like public health and protecting the environment.

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Privatizing everything wouldn't collapse society. People would still be able to get together and decide what they want to contribute towards a public society. But nobody would be threatened with violence by a nearly-omnipotent state to pay for any more than they actually want to... and since everything is private, individuals have incentive to make sure there aren't free riders or inefficiency, etc.

What keeps people from adding lead to their gasoline? Are you going to make a law that says anyone who burns gas can't add lead to it to make it more efficient? What are you going to do if they refuse? Are you going to sue them for scrambling your children's brains with lead? Prove they are responsible.

What do you do about the natural concentration of wealth over time, if there are no means for redistribution? In a capitalist system, the more wealth you have, the better your ability to capture a greater share of all current and newly generated wealth (When a capitalist acquires an asset his ability to acquire more assets increases). For example, Paris Hilton inherits $500 million. All Paris Hilton has to do is hire brilliant minds to manage her wealth and investments. Her chance of losing money to market forces is far smaller than her chance of making money off purchasing profitable businesses and properties, or making safe investments. This requires no labor on her behalf, it is purely her money making money.

Progressive taxation is the only force that acts against this and prevents a small number of people from eventually owning virtually all of society. (The lack of which also being a major contributor to why things have been in the shitter since Reagan)

[mickmoranis]

Im having a hard time believing that my mom and dad were threatened with violence, and that is why they were good, law abiding citizezns.

A long time ago we didnt have a goverment and religion just stoned you to death if you screwed up... Sounds like without goverment we're in a much more forced/violent society than with.

Altho the current leaders of america would not like you to know that, which is why they will continue to rule you via MANIPULATION, not the threat of force.

Americans are more and more manipulated every day. The irony is the machine just needed cranking, now the citizens do the manipulation themselves.

Its never the threat of force you need to worry about, its the people manipulating you into thinking there is a force you need to worry about when the things theyre telling you theyre taking from you are, education, healthcare, roads, police, your rights etc.

its hilarious.

[mickmoranis]

Thats fine, again yall missing the point, thats force to enforce LAW not goverment.

You live in a world where law forces goverment in countries like Russia or North korea.

In america you live in a world where manipulated idiots fuck up legislation which frustrates you, but is not forcing you to do anything beyond a normal exchange of goods and services contract youd make with anyone else who was on the level.

Their are of course correlations you can draw between midevil social constructs and modern ones, but you can draw lines and connect dots to pretty much anything.

If you think you're being forced to do anything in america, you're manipulated.