Necromancers "are terrible in groups"

[Nixtar]

Originally Posted by Teako [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would rather have consistent safe DPS in every single party in every single zone at any level bracket than a pseudo enchanter with less CC options for when a pet breaks and hulks you. Or a lazy pet attack shadowbond bot on mobs who don't live longer than 15 seconds.

Necro is not a class that benefits well in a fast paced environment like KC. You're not Mana efficient on the mobs, you can't CC over half of them except root, your health transfer is mediocre, and taking on a hasted charmed pet is a huge liability in a 5man unless people babysit you. So you either have 3 people babysitting one bootleg Necro, or a summoned pet and mediocre DPS. Either way I'd rather take an actual DPS and save the trouble.

Putting that unpleasant sounding experience aside.

A necromancer adds a lot more than just DPS to a group. You mention fast pace, well, a necromancer can turn a druid into a proper healer, make a shaman afford slows and heal, constantly keep HoTs up and STILL have mana for CC.

Speaking from a Paladin perspective, it was pretty awesome how I always seemed to have mana over for stuns. As a result I owned aggro. Took a lot less damage, and could even afford some backup heals when things got messy. I believe the healer started nuking at some point.

When it comes to "lazy" necromancers, I've found simply asking for X or Y works wonders. For instance, "Twitch when I announce X amount of mana" or "could you keep your HoT running on the shaman"<-- Which is more or less a twitch for shamans(and we all know shamans just LOVE to canni dance!). Most of the time, the so-called laziness is more out of ignorance than malice or stupidity. Which probably stems from being used to going solo.

Likewise, if you are a necro with a rogue pet, all you need to to is /tell tank "I got a rogue pet, could you try and keep the mobs facing way from X." It isn't a big ask and he's probably been asked that by 239843242 rogues before in order to make getting into BS position more fluid.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by Teako [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would rather have consistent safe DPS in every single party in every single zone at any level bracket than a pseudo enchanter with less CC options for when a pet breaks and hulks you. Or a lazy pet attack shadowbond bot on mobs who don't live longer than 15 seconds.

You've made the argument for how LEET STATUSZ your Necro was every single day in KC ooc chat for almost 3 weeks straight now. I was one of the people routinely declining your Necro because you're entitled and lazy. You've been constantly crapping on people to take your poorly geared Necro alt over a monk in groups that don't need or want necros. I watched you leave an entire infernus party over them not desiring to pick up another monk and you swap to Necro at hands. Then you proceeded to flame and cuss them out in OOC. Classy.

Nobody owes your Necro anything. Any group at any time for any reason can say no and that's the end of it. Your abuse and harassment of groups in KC is ridiculous. The way you attempt to join parties on one character and convince them your alt Necro is just SO FRIGGIN GOOD is also ridiculous.

Necro is not a class that benefits well in a fast paced environment like KC. You're not Mana efficient on the mobs, you can't CC over half of them except root, your health transfer is mediocre, and taking on a hasted charmed pet is a huge liability in a 5man unless people babysit you. So you either have 3 people babysitting one bootleg Necro, or a summoned pet and mediocre DPS. Either way I'd rather take an actual DPS and save the trouble.

That, and you are remarkably abusive and entitled about what you feel your Necro is "owed" by groups and the server. Spoiler: it's nothing.

I don't know what your beef is with whoever you are referring to and I was willing to tolerate this post as just a difference of opinion but then you mentioned necro aren't that great in KC in particular because it's fast paced. That's where this post lost any credibility even as just a different point of view.

Rule of thumb- if there's undeads around, necro will rock that zone.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know what your beef is with whoever you are referring to and I was willing to tolerate this post as just a difference of opinion but then you mentioned necro aren't that great in KC in particular because it's fast paced. That's where this post lost any credibility even as just a different point of view.

Rule of thumb- if there's undeads around, necro will rock that zone.

It really depends on the necro tbh...KC is fun zone because it lets lots of classes shine IF they play right. There is super wide gap between a bad/lazy necro in kc and a good one actually trying to play right.

[Teako]

Some excerpts:

[Fri Mar 24 15:13:16 2017] Scarlete tells the group, 'NO NECRO [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]' (two days later referencing your LFG spam)
[Wed Mar 22 11:52:43 2017] Daegun says out of character, '55 necro lfg -- backstab pet + heals + twitches + cc + + charm + whatever' (you)
[Wed Mar 22 11:26:26 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'there is no way a necro pet does the same dps as you' - talking to our epic 55 rogue
[Wed Mar 22 11:25:29 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'he just told me, hes necro pet does 5dps less than you cactus' (you abusing random people in tells over not inviting your necro)
[Wed Mar 22 11:23:42 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'heh hes talking to me, trying to convince me how good necro are in groups'
[Wed Mar 22 11:19:30 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'not sure what he wanted to do wtih his necro, we needed a puller
[Wed Mar 22 11:18:51 2017] You tell your party, 'guy was clearly going to bail the second we made it clear we didn't want his necro he wanted to swap to. nbd, lots of pullers'
[Wed Mar 22 11:18:31 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'and his necros play no valid role in this group'
[Wed Mar 22 11:13:11 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'necro would be my last choice for dps in a group, not being an ass or anything'

There's a lot more, but you get the point. They very politely declined your necro, and you continued trying to ram it down their throat as if it was the best thing since the sun. You joined them with the intention of trying to make them carry your necro when another puller became available and they declined outright so you left.. then proceeded to cuss people out in /ooc over being "necro hating noobs"

Don't come to the forums like you're some glimmering white knight of necro-group-salvation.. you're an entitled child who cusses people out that don't want to group with him.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Teako [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some excerpts:

[Fri Mar 24 15:13:16 2017] Scarlete tells the group, 'NO NECRO [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]' (two days later referencing your LFG spam)
[Wed Mar 22 11:52:43 2017] Daegun says out of character, '55 necro lfg -- backstab pet + heals + twitches + cc + + charm + whatever' (you)
[Wed Mar 22 11:26:26 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'there is no way a necro pet does the same dps as you' - talking to our epic 55 rogue
[Wed Mar 22 11:25:29 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'he just told me, hes necro pet does 5dps less than you cactus' (you abusing random people in tells over not inviting your necro)
[Wed Mar 22 11:23:42 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'heh hes talking to me, trying to convince me how good necro are in groups'
[Wed Mar 22 11:19:30 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'not sure what he wanted to do wtih his necro, we needed a puller
[Wed Mar 22 11:18:51 2017] You tell your party, 'guy was clearly going to bail the second we made it clear we didn't want his necro he wanted to swap to. nbd, lots of pullers'
[Wed Mar 22 11:18:31 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'and his necros play no valid role in this group'
[Wed Mar 22 11:13:11 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'necro would be my last choice for dps in a group, not being an ass or anything'

There's a lot more, but you get the point. They very politely declined your necro, and you continued trying to ram it down their throat as if it was the best thing since the sun. You joined them with the intention of trying to make them carry your necro when another puller became available and they declined outright so you left.. then proceeded to cuss people out in /ooc over being "necro hating noobs"

Don't come to the forums like you're some glimmering white knight of necro-group-salvation.. you're an entitled child who cusses people out that don't want to group with him.

Well hello Promises.

[Wed Mar 22 16:14:15 2017] Zadane tells the group, 'decayed prisoner Mez'd'
[Wed Mar 22 16:14:20 2017] You tell your party, 'summoned - not even charm'
[Wed Mar 22 16:14:23 2017] Promises tells the group, 'let me be.. 100&PCT; frank then'
[Wed Mar 22 16:14:27 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'ill duel your necro pet'
[Wed Mar 22 16:14:29 2017] Promises tells the group, 'necros are a shit group class'
[Wed Mar 22 16:14:36 2017] Promises tells the group, 'and I would invite a 47 paladin over a 55 necro in kc'
[Wed Mar 22 16:14:46 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'necro needs to be in HS, solo'
[Wed Mar 22 16:14:59 2017] Promises tells the group, 'precisely. any necro lfg over 40 means they can't solo efficiently, or are too lazy to do so'
[Wed Mar 22 16:15:16 2017] You tell your party, 'later guys'
[Wed Mar 22 16:15:17 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'necro haters_101 lol'
[Wed Mar 22 16:15:25 2017] Promises tells the group, 'sorry your main sucks bro'
[Wed Mar 22 16:15:29 2017] Promises tells the group, 'learn to take off adamantite club in groups'
[Wed Mar 22 16:15:31 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'bah'
[Wed Mar 22 16:15:31 2017] You tell your party, 'my main is a 60 bard'
[Wed Mar 22 16:15:37 2017] You tell your party, 'my other main is a torpor shaman'
[Wed Mar 22 16:15:42 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'dont leave over it lol'
[Wed Mar 22 16:15:42 2017] Promises tells the group, 'not impressing anyone'
[Wed Mar 22 16:16:09 2017] Promises tells the group, '60 bard, necro, shaman, 2x monk, 2x rogue, druid, cleric, ench.. many of which are guised/firepots bound/etc.'
[Wed Mar 22 16:16:19 2017] Promises tells the group, 'don't gotta try to e-peen swing your 'leet parzez''
[Wed Mar 22 16:16:21 2017] You tell your party, 'and yet your 52 warrior twink won't put on aggro weapons'
[Wed Mar 22 16:16:30 2017] You tell your party, 'its fine man, be safe'
[Wed Mar 22 16:16:33 2017] Promises tells the group, 'why would I? holding agro off everyone except the moron who refuses to take off his stun proc'

Tells:

[Wed Mar 22 16:16:14 2017] Jocky tells you, 'dont think you should leave over it'
[Wed Mar 22 16:16:49 2017] You told Jocky, 'sorry - promises is a douche'
[Wed Mar 22 16:17:02 2017] Jocky tells you, 'i understand, not sure where all that come from !'
[Wed Mar 22 16:17:12 2017] Cactus tells you, 'so... Sorry about that. Didn't realize he was such a dick.'
[Wed Mar 22 16:17:13 2017] Promises tells you, 'also - 64.3 dps average over 1hr 27mins. You sat around 36.1 dps average over the same time frame. Why would I half my dps when our monk is bad and does low dps?'
[Wed Mar 22 16:17:43 2017] Promises tells you, 'only threat issue was the retard monk who doesn't know to take his adamantite club off lol'
[Wed Mar 22 16:17:43 2017] Cactus tells you, 'at any rate, thanks for the group, sorry it turned out like that. I appreciate you logging your monk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]'

There was one and only one reason I left that group: you, Promises. Not 5 minutes earlier you were complaining about the mage, mage pet, and the group's dps. I offered to play a class that would have contributed more dps, been able to help the low level enchanter manage the crowd control he was having a hard time with, and would have made sure Jocky wasn't perpetually low on mana from healing the rogue you refused to equip aggro weapons for and helping the low level enchanter manage crowd control with roots - all while doing more damage.

I wish i'd turned my logs on earlier but I didn't until I wanted to see just how awesome your dps weapons were helping you perform depsite Cactus asking you several times to put your dps weapon away. We also had an enchanter who was functionally too low of a level to mez anything efficiently or quickly. This conversation happened while we were sitting on our asses at hands with you at 60% health, me at 40% health - and not much cleric mana to heal with.

Combined: Skeletal watcher on 3/18/2017 in 1058sec
Monk: 50dps
Rogue: 55dps
Warrior: 42dps
Mage pet: 23dps

I logged off of my necromancer and switched characters because you needed a puller. As we struggled later, they (not you) very politely refused my offer to play necro. That was fine, but your little tirade in group chat in light of your exceptional performance wasn't really something I was ok with - which is why I left [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] .

By the way, I did appreciate how not 10 minutes later you were dead in the Overthere, the group wiped, and then never recovered with you sitting on your ass at the zone line until you logged off.

~Drama

[Skinned]

As a shaman I can be the only priest in the group, slows and heals, with necro support, keep people alive quite easily, and the necro is still contributing to DPS substantially.

Playing a nec effectively in a group requires really knowing the class and what it is capable of. The effects aren't obvious really to someone who doesn't know what to look for...the class is more subtle...damage ticks away and doesn't drop drastically like a wizard DPS....there is less downtown because the necro is feeding the shaman mana, who is being fed HPs with regeneration buffs....every now and then when adds get intense a mez comes off...does back up healing to casters who are missing 20% of their hit points so you don't have to while you're babysitting the melees. Then if you wipe they can even survive, drag out your corpses, and rez you if they are so inclined. They have an impressive tool set but it isn't obvious to people who don't know what to look for in a good necromancer in a group.

[Tenet]

Originally Posted by Skinned [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As a shaman I can be the only priest in the group, slows and heals, with necro support, keep people alive quite easily, and the necro is still contributing to DPS substantially...

As a friendly shaman once told me in CoM: shaman and necro are BFF!

Scaleway - Auld Lang Syne

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Tenet [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As a friendly shaman once told me in CoM: shaman and necro are BFF!

Scaleway - Auld Lang Syne

with shaman slowing and regening, necro heals become easily enough to keep a group alive in most exp camps...necro heals don't really eat into their dps either.

its a solid combo...but both classes can usually be more efficient just solo'ing on their own. in level'ing my shaman i think i've only had 1 or 2 grps where there was a necro actually in grp playing that role.

[Teppler]

A person playing a class poorly is not an indictment on the class it's an indictment on the player.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A person playing a class poorly is not an indictment on the class it's an indictment on the player.

yes, i wasn't insulting the class. the gap for certain classes is significant. the size of the gap is a function of the class abilities/mechanics. for necros, as a class, the gap is very big.