A Beginner's Guide to the P1999 Raid Scene?

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The basic "problem" is that classic raiding on live was horrible. The game lent itself to spawn camping by entire guilds (affectionately later called "poop socking" -- sounds pleasant), racing, kill stealing, training, bottle-necking progression (affectionately called "cock blocking" --again, sounds pleasant, right?) etc.

Live EQ never solved these problems until end-game PoP (INSTANCED POTIME). On **some servers** the competing guilds cooperated and entered into their own agreements because it was mutually beneficial, but the game mechanics and CS teams never solved them. In the end, it was only fixed by designing content that was hard to bottleneck or was actually instanced.

So...the "problem" here is that the server did what it was designed to do. The state of raiding on P99 is a FEATURE intentionally replicated and implemented by the designers.

I've already provided you with time relevant links from both Gordon Wrinn and time relevant links from multiple forums, multiple servers and multiple posters (I believe in excess of 64 individuals) that prove what your saying is bullshit.

As Gordon posted, the system was not perfect however it was implemented because guilds were permacamping spawns and in some cases entire zones and it did to a large extent solve the issue, forcing guilds to enter into rotations rather than individuals being banned or guild disbanded for breaching the classic PnP.

Nice try at misinforming the community here..

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Ikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've already provided you with time relevant links from both Gordon Wrinn and time relevant links from multiple forums, multiple servers and multiple posters (I believe in excess of 64 individuals) that prove what your saying is bullshit.

As Gordon posted, the system was not perfect however it was implemented because guilds were permacamping spawns and in some cases entire zones and it did to a large extent solve the issue, forcing guilds to enter into rotations rather than individuals being banned or guild disbanded for breaching the classic PnP.

Nice try at misinforming the community here..

Ikon,

I've tried at least three times in the last week to dialogue with in several threads. Each and every time you've resorted to personal attacks instead. I'll try again.

Attempting to solve the problem on live and actually solving it are not the same thing. I recall all the hardships of EQ persisting on my live server (Xev--split from Povar---, which was relatively calm compared to others that my friends played on) all the way until instancing entered the game. We fought each other at each every turn for Emp kills in Luclin. For fought each other for God bottlenecks in PoP. The bitter and hostel play styles survived all attempts at player agreements and GM involvement until they actually changed the mechanics of the game (primarily adding instancing).

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ikon,

I've tried at least three times in the last week to dialogue with in several threads. Each and every time you've resorted to personal attacks instead. I'll try again.

Attempting to solve the problem on live and actually solving it are not the same thing. I recall all the hardships of EQ persisting on my live server (Xev--split from Povar---, which was relatively calm compared to others that my friends played on) all the way until instancing entered the game. We fought each other at each every turn for Emp kills in Luclin. For fought each other for God bottlenecks in PoP. The bitter and hostel play styles survived all attempts at player agreements and GM involvement until they actually changed the mechanics of the game (primarily adding instancing).

I don't personally attack people. Stop trying to be a victim.

Fact is your opinion or your 17 year old memory of EQ means sweet fark all.

Fact is the evidence I linked showed that the classic system that Verant implemented worked - as Gordon said, not perfectly, but it worked. That was verified by the comments in the threads I linked of people complaining about having to "share" and how awful it was.

"aweful" being completely subjective, as the comments mentioned the reason they didn't petition often because of the classic PnP policy is because there were lists and rotations.

There were lists and rotations because of the classic PnP policy.

That's not my 17 year old memory that's from the fingers of people from 2001 who experienced it and wrote about it in 2001. Would you like me to link it again?

Edit: Before you start arguing about me personally attacking you - A personal attack is if I said Ikon you're a farkhead. A personal attack is not if I said Ikon you're acting like a farkhead. The first is attacking the person, the second is a criticism of the persons behavior. IMO you are acting like a schoolkid. You are demanding that your personal opinion, based on your individual experience on your particular server(s) be considered evidence of what happened on every server 17 years ago. You believe that that should override contemporaneous posts of the time by Everquest developers and people who played on various servers. That is a pretty stupid expectation.

[Ravager]

Probably not. The cheesy tactics to kill things would just drop down to level 50ish mobs and most of it would just be undoable since the mobs would be regenning faster than the players can hurt them.

Classic EQ is just a poorly designed game, but nobody wants to admit it. The only way to balance things is to actually balance them, which means nerfs across the board, finetune the content and add custom content, but that's not the aim of this project.

[Ravager]

So easy to wind Swish up.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So easy to wind Swish up.

This is the usual retort when facts about BDA are posted.

I hear the remainers who didn't go to Phinny are just a token leveling guild pretty much these days...was grouped with a 40s BDA shaman last night who said he was applying elsewhere to raid.

Mind you, what else is new since Velious hit and the guild couldn't compete? Off they go [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Ravager]

Watch as he piles on. He can't resist.

[jakerees]

Seems like you can't resist either...

[fastboy21]

It depends what you mean by "hard coded". There was no mechanic that actually stopped guilds from defecting on the agreement (intentionally or on-purpose), which to me means not hard coded. GMs had to swoop in on a case by case basis after events had unfolded and make a ruling. It was entirely enforced by the CS people and not by the actual mechanics of the game.

AFAIK, the major guilds did, in fact, agree to this system before Rogean began spawning raid bosses again.

The point I was making is that, for whatever reasons, Rogean pre-velious decided to address what he thought were issues with the server's raiding system. It wasn't perfect, but it did (at least imo) work to bring some significantly positive change to the raiding scene on p99 for several months.

That desire to reform raiding on p99 has since apparently diminished. Why the reverse in their thoughts? Perhaps it was only inspired by the desire to launch velious the right way, perhaps Rogean had a change of mind, or perhaps the server staff simply can't enforce the system how they would like with their given resources and are settling atm for what they can do.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AFAIK, the major guilds did, in fact, agree to this system before Rogean began spawning raid bosses again.

Nah, they never agreed to it. There was some convoluted player made plan that every guild but TMO was trying to put in place, but TMO never came to negotiate in good faith. What Rogean came up with was nothing like any of the player made arrangements. I remember, because there was a great deal of aggravation for wasted time trying to hammer out a deal.

Then, Zeelot threw a big hissyfit and disbanded the guild.