A Beginner's Guide to the P1999 Raid Scene?

[Ravager]

So easy to wind Swish up.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So easy to wind Swish up.

This is the usual retort when facts about BDA are posted.

I hear the remainers who didn't go to Phinny are just a token leveling guild pretty much these days...was grouped with a 40s BDA shaman last night who said he was applying elsewhere to raid.

Mind you, what else is new since Velious hit and the guild couldn't compete? Off they go [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Ravager]

Watch as he piles on. He can't resist.

[jakerees]

Seems like you can't resist either...

[fastboy21]

The basic "problem" is that classic raiding on live was horrible. The game lent itself to spawn camping by entire guilds (affectionately later called "poop socking" -- sounds pleasant), racing, kill stealing, training, bottle-necking progression (affectionately called "cock blocking" --again, sounds pleasant, right?) etc.

Live EQ never solved these problems until end-game PoP (INSTANCED POTIME). On **some servers** the competing guilds cooperated and entered into their own agreements because it was mutually beneficial, but the game mechanics and CS teams never solved them. In the end, it was only fixed by designing content that was hard to bottleneck or was actually instanced.

So...the "problem" here is that the server did what it was designed to do. The state of raiding on P99 is a FEATURE intentionally replicated and implemented by the designers.

There was an era in the server history where I thought the dev team had changed their philosophy on this. For those of you who weren't here yet, Rogean shut down all raiding for all guilds. He did this until they agreed to cooperate in a raiding system. The result was the class R and class C system. It wasn't a perfect system, but it was a milestone in p99's history. The commitment to the paradigm shift that caused raid reform here seems to have waned in recent times on the server.

Maybe the team decided on a change of heart and went back to their original design philosophy?

Maybe the team decided that enforcement was impossible with given resources and they gave up on it?

Personally, I think they were on the right road and they got off of it (for whatever reason), but that's just opinion. The current state of the server is what it is now...and I don't imagine it changing much. The one exception is that I hope they use p99 to beta test the systems they will hopefully implement on the reboot iteration of p99 whenever that happens.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There was an era in the server history where I thought the dev team had changed their philosophy on this. For those of you who weren't here yet, Rogean shut down all raiding for all guilds. He did this until they agreed to cooperate in a raiding system. The result was the class R and class C system. It wasn't a perfect system, but it was a milestone in p99's history. The commitment to the paradigm shift that caused raid reform here seems to have waned in recent times on the server.

True, except the players made no agreement to cooperate and that was the whole problem. The result of the class R and class C was 100% Rogean and hard coded into the server. It wasn't perfect, but it was something. C/R/FFA may as well be re-implemented at this point since there is no Sleeper anymore and arguably shittier raid conditions than back when it was first introduced.

[fastboy21]

It depends what you mean by "hard coded". There was no mechanic that actually stopped guilds from defecting on the agreement (intentionally or on-purpose), which to me means not hard coded. GMs had to swoop in on a case by case basis after events had unfolded and make a ruling. It was entirely enforced by the CS people and not by the actual mechanics of the game.

AFAIK, the major guilds did, in fact, agree to this system before Rogean began spawning raid bosses again.

The point I was making is that, for whatever reasons, Rogean pre-velious decided to address what he thought were issues with the server's raiding system. It wasn't perfect, but it did (at least imo) work to bring some significantly positive change to the raiding scene on p99 for several months.

That desire to reform raiding on p99 has since apparently diminished. Why the reverse in their thoughts? Perhaps it was only inspired by the desire to launch velious the right way, perhaps Rogean had a change of mind, or perhaps the server staff simply can't enforce the system how they would like with their given resources and are settling atm for what they can do.

[Maciver]

There was a lot of rotations on my server, especially for epic and mid level raiding content. End game was whoever mustered the force required first. Shady activity was always met with GM interaction.

We raced for AoW a lot. One time the opposing guild was training us and eating all mod rods. They were met with GM death touches and eventually the GM summoned both guild leaders to Qeynos catacombs and forced resolution talks lol.

In the end it seemed pretty clear cut. Who ever had the force in zone to kill and engage first had claim. The GM would enforce that. If you wiped the other guild was free to engage. There was a lot of leap frogging at that point. Several guilds en mass moving from dragon to dragon in ntov. You got what you got. Mid level casual guilds had east tov on rotation.

That said, some guilds did not agree with rotations and there was nothing GM's would do if someone went out of turn. It was all player monitored.

I haven't experienced it here, but i enjoyed the spirit of it on live in this era. I always thought instancing was the lamest idea ever, took a lot away from the world imo.

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The basic "problem" is that classic raiding on live was horrible. The game lent itself to spawn camping by entire guilds (affectionately later called "poop socking" -- sounds pleasant), racing, kill stealing, training, bottle-necking progression (affectionately called "cock blocking" --again, sounds pleasant, right?) etc.

Live EQ never solved these problems until end-game PoP (INSTANCED POTIME). On **some servers** the competing guilds cooperated and entered into their own agreements because it was mutually beneficial, but the game mechanics and CS teams never solved them. In the end, it was only fixed by designing content that was hard to bottleneck or was actually instanced.

So...the "problem" here is that the server did what it was designed to do. The state of raiding on P99 is a FEATURE intentionally replicated and implemented by the designers.

I've already provided you with time relevant links from both Gordon Wrinn and time relevant links from multiple forums, multiple servers and multiple posters (I believe in excess of 64 individuals) that prove what your saying is bullshit.

As Gordon posted, the system was not perfect however it was implemented because guilds were permacamping spawns and in some cases entire zones and it did to a large extent solve the issue, forcing guilds to enter into rotations rather than individuals being banned or guild disbanded for breaching the classic PnP.

Nice try at misinforming the community here..

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AFAIK, the major guilds did, in fact, agree to this system before Rogean began spawning raid bosses again.

Nah, they never agreed to it. There was some convoluted player made plan that every guild but TMO was trying to put in place, but TMO never came to negotiate in good faith. What Rogean came up with was nothing like any of the player made arrangements. I remember, because there was a great deal of aggravation for wasted time trying to hammer out a deal.

Then, Zeelot threw a big hissyfit and disbanded the guild.