Cucumbers v Detoxx: An Epic Wiki Battle

[Freakish]

Originally Posted by Legday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Briefs/Cucu/Kegluas - sell me an SoD on the cheap so I can hang it over Detoxx's head. You will not regret it.

Also - procs don't need to land to generate the exact same amount of threat as they would have if they did land. Dump a mallet in to a dragon and it will never land a single click, but it rips and keeps agro all the same.

I believe the argument is whether 5 mallet clicks resisted would generate the same amount as if they landed. Let's say it's 500 aggro (made up number here) for each resisted mallet click. Would it be more if the spell landed? 550, 600?
I don't think it would. Taking logic from the wizard spell line, a resisted sunstrike is as much aggro as one that lands for full. The difference would be when it lands if there is a dot component or some kind of ticking debuffs.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Bruno [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I definitely don't agree it's overrated. It might be on project 1999. When I main tanked on both live and EQmac I tested the shit out of agro with SoD, Blade of Carnage, and epic. It wasn't even close. Dual SoDs beat out all other combinations for maintaining agro on every type of mob. As far as stats well that's a different story.

The Blade of Carnage (700 hate proc, 1.3 hate ratio) should be slightly superior to the SOD (688 hate proc, 1.28 hate ratio) in the mainhand.

I don't think any sort of direct experiment, i.e. 'hey I used BOC today and SODs yesterday' will be sufficiently accurate. You just have to measure the hate per swing, measure the hate per proc, and do the math.

Jeremy's inability to do this is why I take his claims that he is good at math with a large boulder of salt.

Originally Posted by zanderklocke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I deleted stuff that said things like first guild to get suspended after class changes...

You deleted BDA's only server first?

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Freakish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe the argument is whether 5 mallet clicks resisted would generate the same amount as if they landed. Let's say it's 500 aggro (made up number here) for each resisted mallet click. Would it be more if the spell landed? 550, 600?
I don't think it would. Taking logic from the wizard spell line, a resisted sunstrike is as much aggro as one that lands for full. The difference would be when it lands if there is a dot component or some kind of ticking debuffs.

Aggro is entirely front loaded. It is calculated before the the success of the action is calculated.

This extends for both melee and spells. This is the reason misses generate aggro and resists do as well.

The perfect example of this is the Jolt and Concussion lines of spells. Even though their only spell data line is "reduce hate by XXX", it's totally irrelevant whether they land or not. They will reduce that amount of hate every cast without fail. This is classic.

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You deleted BDA's only server first?

I guess I did because I'm an asshole according to Kagey?

[Freakish]

Right, that was my assumption. DoTs definitely give aggro as they tick though.

[Legday]

Interesting notes on spells landing and such.

More importantly:

Originally Posted by Legday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Briefs/Cucu/Kegluas - sell me an SoD on the cheap so I can hang it over Detoxx's head. You will not regret it.

[khanable]

2k and a stack of muffins, legday

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Detoxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well 288 hate from just the damage, obv doesnt include the stun

What do you mean "obv doesnt include the stun"

Why wouldn't you include the stun? An extra 400 hate seems relevant to the conversation.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Freakish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right, that was my assumption. DoTs definitely give aggro as they tick though.

Indeed, they do here.

I know at some point DoTs were front loaded as well. Which lead to Necros FDing every 2nd or 3rd DoT in their DPS rotation to clear aggro. This was way later on in EQ so I'm not sure if it was a later change or something that had been there all along. It would basically be impossible to prove though so meh. I think our aggro code here is pretty solid. Though if they ever did add lazy aggro code holy lord Jesus would the raid scene change.

[Freakish]

Legday probably has better weapons than SoD anyway. 100% serious.