Kael + ToV Rules

[Daldaen]

Nor should anyone. Sontalak and Vindicator aren't listed explicitly in the rules.

ToV + Statue + Tormax are the only mobs listed and the only ones to which these rules are applicable.

[phiren]

I think we can agree all racers need to be guild tagged and NOT /anon (/role is fine if you must).

I haven't seen this come up in a while, but I remember an unguilded TMO person snatching up FTEs on Kunark mobs and TMO promptly claiming he was one of theirs. Though I'm sure he was, it still seems sketchy for /anon and unguilded chars to get FTE?

It's hard to imagine a racer NOT being guilded, but I would like to throw that out there before someone tries to do it and cause confusion & jimmyrustling.

If someone from Dial-A-Port snatches up FTE for fun and legally, I would suggest that Dial-A-Port has FTE for 60 minutes.

What to do when some Kael group with no ambitions, total accident, chain aggros and gets FTE before the racers get there?

It's easy to look BACK on the situation later. But the racers are still going to be racing. You guys should have enough data to determine how long it takes for someone to get FTE. IE: in Kael if anyone gets FTE under 34 seconds, it's obviously a bogus FTE, and the racers should still continue. The first FTE after the 34 second mark would seem like the legal one that all guilds should respect.

When in doubt -- I would say your racers should always continue their race and snatch up an FTE so it's registered and seen. We will have some time to figure out what happened and if the first FTE was bogus.

~Phiren
Azure Guard

[Daldaen]

So to clarify:

When a guild wipes to Target X, the mob is now FFA and they are free to engage another mob before their 60 minute timer is up.

The mob becoming FFA was stated by Sirken but it was also said that the guild acquiring FTE is locked into that mob for 60 minutes until time expires or the mob dies... It doesn't mention the guild dying.

Common sense would dictate a wipe causing the mob to become FFA clears them of their 60 minute FTE limit I think... But just to be safe I'll ask here.

[Pint]

the rule seems pretty clear in stating: "A guild may not FTE any other raid target until their FTE’d target is either Dead, or the 60 minutes is up." being able to intentionally throw a kill or pull it to camp and let it eat a few people then zone out would be pretty blatant manipulation of the rule. just dont race for a mob you arnt wild about killing.

i also dont know that guilded vs unguilded matters, the person will say who he fte'd for and since the pulls arnt instant there will be time to sort things out. if dial a port fte's a mob then allows aftermath or anonymous or anyone to kill it for them, that isnt really any different then azure guard fte'ing a mob and getting europa and omni to kill it for them.

[Daldaen]

The rule didn't state the mob became FFA after a wipe until Sirken clarified though. Just seeking a little clarification.

Indeed though, you could throw a kill to clear yourself of the FTE you're locked in. But on the other hand a guild could just stall kill a mob FFA that you wiped to keeping you locked in for a very long time as well.

I really don't like the being locked in and not being able to concede a target if you so choose because of these things.

[phiren]

I just don't know any other simple way to police the issue other than Sirken's original rule:
When you FTE a mob, you are locked in for 60 minutes or until it's dead.

All this 'concede' stuff to go after other targets is just going to cause way too much confusion. I like the idea of having guilds gamble. If Mob A pops, but you really don't want it because Mob B is juicier... then that's the risk you run.

This is a "new raid scene" IMO. I personally like the rules. It's very very very simple and clear to me.

Allowing guilds to concede, back-out, or purposely wipe, just opens the door for tons of drama, which I thought we are trying to get out of.

~Phiren
Azure Guard

[Daldaen]

If that's the case then wiping shouldn't cause the mob to FFA I would think then?

Being locked in on a mob that turns FFA and another guild engages makes 0 sense to me.

Either after a wipe you need to be unlocked and it how FFA or after a wipe you remain locked and the mob remains your FTE until the timer expires.

[Pint]

i think the rules are designed to give you 1 chance at your mob without getting hassled and in return for that one chance you lock yourself out of the rest of the scene for an hour or until you kill your mob. im not saying i agree with the rule but i do think its intentionally designed to factor in risk vs reward.

i think these rules are very good earthquake rules and will distribute the kills more evenly in those situations, but for standard cycles they require significantly more effort and are in practice a complete mess. i dont think a casual guild got a single target this cycle so it still all went to awakened and aftermath.

[Daldaen]

I fully understand the purpose of the rules and I also don't like them, but we will live with them.

I just don't understand how you can still be locked into a mob after it has become FFA and another guild could pull it and THEN race for another mob and lock themselves into that while they're killing the FFA mob in camp. Seems a bit backwards is all.

Honestly though, I think the reason all of the kills went to Awakened/Aftermath more is in favor of the spawn times rather than anything else. Having gotten home at 8PM and slept at around Midnight, the only targets that spawned while I was there were Lady M and Dain. Everything else spawned very late/early AM which most guilds don't bother contesting during those hours.

A repop on a Saturday afternoon resetting all timers to the middle of a weekend would give a far better indicator next spawn cycle on where mob distribution falls. As long as it's middle of the night in the middle of the week, I don't see mob distribution changing.

[phiren]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If that's the case then wiping shouldn't cause the mob to FFA I would think then?

Being locked in on a mob that turns FFA and another guild engages makes 0 sense to me.

Either after a wipe you need to be unlocked and it how FFA or after a wipe you remain locked and the mob remains your FTE until the timer expires.

I really do agree with your way of thinking here, but I don't know where you are getting the "mob turns FFA after wipe" rule from, and maybe I'm missing something or interpreting the rule differently.

You have 60 minutes.

The way I interpret the rules is that wiping has 0 impact on anything. You still have 60 minutes from your FTE call.

It's obvious if you wipe at 45 minutes, you can't do it.
If you wipe at 30 minutes, maybe you still can.
If you wipe at 35 minutes... maybe you still can.

Where is the line, but more importantly, where is this even written?


~Phiren
Azure Guard