Aftermath eating a full 10 days raid suspension

[TMBLOW]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Statue was in window last night so nerds were lined up to race prior.

correct - there was a delay between the ground shake and the raid mobs actually spawning

Since he ran when the ground shook, he was past the starting line when the mob actually spawned aka tracker FTE. Many other racers were patiently waiting at the line for the mobs to actually spawn.

Do we need even more rules for these retarded footraces that when ground shakes go ham

[Gimp]

Originally Posted by TMBLOW [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so you ran before any raid boss actually spawned and parked yourself rdy to snipe FTE 3 min later so your guild could casually kill some ToV targets and come back later

Sounds like not only your guild bent the spirit of the Kael foot race rule but you yourself were off the starting line before the mob even popped

While we are comparing to VP pad:

When a dragon in VP spawns, anyone past the VP entrance Blue Pad may not assist their guild in any way.

In this argument, every repop PD for the past 2-3 years is a violation.

Gold star for trying though

[ismael]

Originally Posted by TMBLOW [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so you ran before any raid boss actually spawned and parked yourself rdy to snipe FTE 3 min later so your guild could casually kill some ToV targets and come back later

Sounds like not only your guild bent the spirit of the Kael foot race rule but you yourself were off the starting line before the mob even popped

While we are comparing to VP pad:

When a dragon in VP spawns, anyone past the VP entrance Blue Pad may not assist their guild in any way.

Look, the person who got FTE admitted that he started the race when the groundshook and not when the mob was actually up. That's against the rule that I read on the forum.

Like the other guys said, sirken is Aftermath's bitch. He not only enforces a rule that only they wanted at the summit but also has no problem with them starting the race before the mob even spawns and even lets people know, hey guys, this mob is reserved for Aftermath!

Favoritism is obvious.

[falkun]

Basically, Sirken is Aftermath's bitch. Aftermath didn't have anyone there to enforce the rule, Sirken did it for them. This loophole was pointed out a week ago by Aftermath (Pint), in Sirken's own thread announcing the rule:
3/29:

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

20 minutes to engage kt imo

3/31:

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How long are we assuming the winning guild has to engage statue or kt? Is it unlimited?

Then they turned around and abused it. Hopefully Stalling comes into play, but I doubt it, because Aftermath zoned out and Sirken still enforced their claim (underlined emphasis is mine).

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Q10: What about a raid mob being indefinitely kited, stalled, or occupied?
A: It is against server policy to indefinitely kite, stall, or otherwise keep occupied, a raid mob without intention of killing it. You either bring it to your raid, die, or zone out. Obvious stalling of a raid mob, especially in situations to prevent engagement by another guild/party, is against the rules. Ignorance is not an excuse to break this rule, if you are pulling raid targets, we expect you to know what you’re doing.

[Pokesan]

raid suspend sirken instead imo

[Troxx]

raid scene on this server is so stupid

One solution? Put in place a 30 day ban on ALL raid targets for any obvious shenanigans. Permanently ban any offender who violates rules or engages a raid target during that 30 day ban.

What do you want to bet guilds would suddenly learn to play by the rules? If not, permanent ban is eaten which frees up content for everyone else.

[Morgander]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

raid scene on this server is so stupid

One solution? Put in place a 30 day ban on ALL raid targets for any obvious shenanigans. Permanently ban any offender who violates rules or engages a raid target during that 30 day ban.

What do you want to bet guilds would suddenly learn to play by the rules? If not, permanent ban is eaten which frees up content for everyone else.

This statement makes me think you are unfamiliar with the top-end raid scene on P1999. What constitutes "obvious shenanigans"? You're a leader in a top-tier raid guild. You just communicated the respawn of a target to some 200 or so people, 70 of which just dropped everything they were doing to log in to help your team out with this target. You have direct competition of which has done the exact same thing. You all have a vested--and serious interest in this endeavor.

You try to abide 100% by every single rule--a series of rules of which are NOT clear-cut, and of which the only "evidence" is a video recording of events transpiring. Now one of your very experienced guild monks is trying--to legitimately get FTE and by utilizing all rulings, obtain FTE and bring said target to your force. Mobs warp; pathing is hokey; people outside your guild interfere, and all the while you're attempting all this with a train of targets at your back, any one of which can kill you faster than you can FD. On top of that, you have additional individuals doing train up, prepping to train away any straggling mobs who come with the target, among a slew of other things that happen during these events.

Now one of your competitor guilds is calling foul. They "claim" you did something that broke a rule. What do you do? Do you immediately concede the mob because ONE person sent a tell to their applicable raid officer and told them that from THEIR perspective, this player/guild broke some rule in some form? Do you just tell all 70 of your raid force that you're so sorry for waking them up, and or pulling them from whatever they were doing, but we're going to just completely withdraw our attempt because ONE PERSON THINKS THEIR VIEWPOINT SHOWCASES 100% OF THE SITUATION?

Please.

If you understand the rules and like Aftermath (of which I can speak for), attempt to abide by them 100% of the time, you realize that MOST accusations are without merit. We do NOT make blatant attempts to abuse rules. IF it ever does happen, it is by complete accident. It's not like any single entity has only one or two people involved in the training around, FTEing, and pulling of these targets in zones such as Kael and ToV. These kinds of things are incredibly complicated, and a prime reason why there are only two guilds competing in ToV (with all respect provided to all other guilds out there).

I grow so utterly tired of the nonsensical requests that the raid scene have these insane rulings or penalties. Can you imagine having your entire raid guild suspended for a MONTH because ONE person made an accusation that from all accounts, did NOT actually happen? That kind of rule would make it so that the second any guild ever called foul, you would be--as an officer--immediately inclined to simply drop the pull completely, and concede out of sheer fear that maybe one person got a FRAPS of something that conclusively proves that one error was made by one person who didn't know said error happened.

Hell, the FRAPS may not have even shown said target having bad pathing. Maybe the recorder was initiated at just the right time to not show that part, so it looks like a kite.

You just can't do this sort of crap. The entire situation here is a lot more broad, and a lot more complicated than most even begin to realize.

[Lojik]

Originally Posted by Morgander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can you imagine having your entire raid guild suspended for a MONTH

I'd literally die. I see your point

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by Lojik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd literally die. I see your point

lol you're such a troll.

[Lojik]

Originally Posted by bktroost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol you're such a troll.

Who's trolling? Everquest without raid mobs is like Festivus without the feats of strength...it's un-American