Do Not Engage: Warriors Vs. PALs/SHDs - Page 5

guineapig · #1 12-01-2010, 01:43 PM

^^ Spot on ^^

Spewys · #2 12-02-2010, 10:18 AM

Think this thread has been well conversed........Lagaidh...Will save two spots for you and your wife in my group...

Spewys · #3 12-02-2010, 10:57 AM

Taunt not working is really a pain in the rear. Glad it will be fixed in Kunark.

Dantes · #4 12-02-2010, 12:09 PM

I dunno about "broken" or "fixed." If all tanks could keep aggro 100% all the time, casters/healers would never have to fear death...ever. That would make the game too easy.

fastboy21 · #5 12-02-2010, 12:16 PM

the big difference from what i recall is that in kunark and velious warriors do not **need** proc'ing weapons to keep aggro. fast aggro weapons (jarsinth trident, lammy, jade mace, etc) and "working" taunt make playing non-super-twinked tank much more feasible.

Crone · #6 12-02-2010, 01:11 PM

Not sure if its been said, but taunt is not really broken, but it gets "buffed" in kunark to work on mobs up to 6 levels higher than the warrior.

However, after level 40, Warrior aggro generation, and thus tanking, greatly improves. This is because the Warrior no longer is fighting things that are yellow+ con to them. Every Lguk/SolB mob is going to be blue, which means they can successfully taunt them.

Add to this that Yaks start proccing at 37, and tanking gets a lot better.

Dantes · #7 12-02-2010, 06:02 PM

No actually I'm just mocking the kid who keeps saying "Go back to Wow."

Go back to WoW.

Kich · #8 12-02-2010, 09:53 PM

It was more to him than you, but your quote was closer =P

Grod · #9 12-03-2010, 12:50 AM

A lot of it really comes down to the players and sometimes other players in the group need to adapt. Some tanks you don't need to worry about agro at all and it's efficient and with other tanks you have to hold back on your threat some it's just about knowing how to do it.

The other tactic I posted about building threat FOR the warrior so he can pre-taunt mezzed mobs is something in all likelihood very few tanks would ever think to do so the "reputations" of classes in a lot of times is based on the skill level of the average player of that class and not what exceptional players can accomplish with that class.

The thing is, especially in Kunark, an exceptional warrior will be able to hold agro just as effectively as any of the hybrids with better mitigation and on raids that essentially makes the hybrids obsolete so what happened in MOST top end raiding guilds is that they kept limited spots available for hybrids because there is no reason to bring in multiple SK's/Paladins if they are essentially limited to a DPS role or inferior in the other roles. For example, they aren't the best pulling classes, they aren't the best crowd control class and they aren't the best tanks.

Ironically the hybrids that brought the most to raids were the Bards and Rangers. Bards actually did make excellent pullers and could fill multiple roles and Rangers brought the most versatility although very few guilds used Rangers properly an exceptionally skilled Ranger was a very important addition to a raid. They were probably the best kiting class in game because Snares caused no damage and were high agro (Druids could snare but they were more effectively used as healers and SK snare caused damage which would lead to the mob summoning).

Rangers were also the best class to transition a tank death without a wipe because they had the most reliable agro of the DPS classes through fast casting snares and the longest avoidance discipline with weaponshield so between the tank transitions and kiting they could effectively fill important roles on raids as could the Bards although the Ranger jobs were usually more active unless the Bard was pulling.

Point is though that in most cases the skill level of the player > the class but at the end of the day, if you have the most skilled players in the most efficient classes for that role it trumped the classes that weren't as effective at performing those roles so a well played Warrior in almost situations is superior to a well played SK / Paladin. It's just the way it is. In most guilds, and that's the beauty of Everquest, the roles were performed by different classes based on which classes the best players in that guild were playing however tanking on raids almost exclusively went to the Warriors.

Estu · #10 12-03-2010, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grod [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A lot of it really comes down to the players and sometimes other players in the group need to adapt. Some tanks you don't need to worry about agro at all and it's efficient and with other tanks you have to hold back on your threat some it's just about knowing how to do it.

The other tactic I posted about building threat FOR the warrior so he can pre-taunt mezzed mobs is something in all likelihood very few tanks would ever think to do so the "reputations" of classes in a lot of times is based on the skill level of the average player of that class and not what exceptional players can accomplish with that class.

The thing is, especially in Kunark, an exceptional warrior will be able to hold agro just as effectively as any of the hybrids with better mitigation and on raids that essentially makes the hybrids obsolete so what happened in MOST top end raiding guilds is that they kept limited spots available for hybrids because there is no reason to bring in multiple SK's/Paladins if they are essentially limited to a DPS role or inferior in the other roles. For example, they aren't the best pulling classes, they aren't the best crowd control class and they aren't the best tanks.

Ironically the hybrids that brought the most to raids were the Bards and Rangers. Bards actually did make excellent pullers and could fill multiple roles and Rangers brought the most versatility although very few guilds used Rangers properly an exceptionally skilled Ranger was a very important addition to a raid. They were probably the best kiting class in game because Snares caused no damage and were high agro (Druids could snare but they were more effectively used as healers and SK snare caused damage which would lead to the mob summoning).

Rangers were also the best class to transition a tank death without a wipe because they had the most reliable agro of the DPS classes through fast casting snares and the longest avoidance discipline with weaponshield so between the tank transitions and kiting they could effectively fill important roles on raids as could the Bards although the Ranger jobs were usually more active unless the Bard was pulling.

Point is though that in most cases the skill level of the player > the class but at the end of the day, if you have the most skilled players in the most efficient classes for that role it trumped the classes that weren't as effective at performing those roles so a well played Warrior in almost situations is superior to a well played SK / Paladin. It's just the way it is. In most guilds, and that's the beauty of Everquest, the roles were performed by different classes based on which classes the best players in that guild were playing however tanking on raids almost exclusively went to the Warriors.

I enjoyed this post.