Do Not Engage: Warriors Vs. PALs/SHDs

[Lagaidh]

Originally Posted by quellren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can pretty much pull aggro at will with a T_rg_r's Insects on something above 85% HP.
I've gotten in the habit of just rooting the damn thing before I even bother with slow. Anything else, and I wear it.

I've been an EQ paladin forever and this simply will not happen in my group unless I've already died.

I really can't answer the question of "better". The only time I ever think there is a "better" is the instance of a WAR standing up to a raid target. When grinding and working on raid trash, it's all situational.

It's also dependant upon the whole group... not just the tank. Some fools will always try to burn their entire mana pool on incoming before a tank can even cast a spell or push attack.

A lot of times, the reputation that PALs and SHDs are superior tanks in the every day situation is because the DPS contingent of the group wants to play lazily. If the PAL or SHD gets that snap agro early (and they will if they know their class at all), then the DPS can just go into nuke and stab mode and not think about any other tactic of play.

However, if the group knows their classes as well as that PAL or SHD, then you can put a WAR in there and never notice the difference in efficiency. I know the number crunchers can make a case against this, but shit people, why do some folks insist upon being at the bleeding edge of efficiency in a pastime? Really?

This conversation always boils down to that: concrete roles and maximum efficiency. I've always bristled at this viewpoint even if I respect it. I've played in all manner of group combinations and the times I've always had a blast is where the mix wasn't ideal and we still kicked ass. That is a sign that you are with good players and not just in a paint-by-numbers grindfest.

Play the game. Play the game. Advancement is a side effect.

[Lagaidh]

Originally Posted by SlankyLanky [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i agree. ive never been turned away from a group because of the exp penalty i bring, hell what group doesnt have at least 1 hybrid in it?

I've been duoing with my wife on p99 almost exclusively. I want us to stay the same level. I have been getting unsolicited tells to group every single time I've logged in for a week no matter how far away I am.

I must say. That's a refreshing thing for me. On the Rathe and Maelin Starpyre back in the day (99-05), I really can't recall that happening to me.

I hope folks don't quit trying to invite me [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I'll be accepting soon enough. Or if you have two spots, and we have the time, you get a PAL and a DRU.

[Spewys]

Think this thread has been well conversed........Lagaidh...Will save two spots for you and your wife in my group...

[Estu]

Originally Posted by Meldor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's not a problem.. stop with your WoW mentality.. back on live 12 years ago you had to wait for your tanks to build aggro and it's the same now.

You guys are soo freaking carebears now a day... play smart play with skills, if your a dps and YOU pick aggro YOU are the problem. Yes Sk/Pal got it easier for aggro but in the other hand Warrior have more HP / AC and skills then Hybrid tanks.

So be smart.

Wow, you douche. Just because I'm interested in questions of efficiency doesn't mean I have a "WoW mentality". Grow up.

[knottyb0y]

Nice. Are SKs and PALs very unpopular in Kunark and Velious, then, or do they also have nice bonuses?

As far as i understand SKs and PAL are still necessary in Kunark. They also get gear upgrades, but Kunark really made pure melee's shine the most (with biggest gear upgrades and balancing factors).

I still imagine that SKs and Pal will do a lot of off-tanking duty during raids.

As far as exp grouping goes I think your reputation as a good player, or at least enjoyable player > how much better or worse your class is at tanking than another. Unless it prohibits me from doing content I've never rejected a class (particularly a tank) to join my group, especially if I have grouped with them before and they did not suck.

Kunark really just brings a lot of upgrades all around and a lot of fixes/features for pure melee classes. Does that mean that Warriors suck in classic? No. But taunt IS broken, and the classic gear gap between knights and warriors is not as pronounced, making knights seem more desirable for grouping at least on paper.

[Spewys]

Taunt not working is really a pain in the rear. Glad it will be fixed in Kunark.

[Dantes]

I dunno about "broken" or "fixed." If all tanks could keep aggro 100% all the time, casters/healers would never have to fear death...ever. That would make the game too easy.

[fastboy21]

the big difference from what i recall is that in kunark and velious warriors do not **need** proc'ing weapons to keep aggro. fast aggro weapons (jarsinth trident, lammy, jade mace, etc) and "working" taunt make playing non-super-twinked tank much more feasible.

[Crone]

Not sure if its been said, but taunt is not really broken, but it gets "buffed" in kunark to work on mobs up to 6 levels higher than the warrior.

However, after level 40, Warrior aggro generation, and thus tanking, greatly improves. This is because the Warrior no longer is fighting things that are yellow+ con to them. Every Lguk/SolB mob is going to be blue, which means they can successfully taunt them.

Add to this that Yaks start proccing at 37, and tanking gets a lot better.

[Meldor]

Originally Posted by Estu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow, you douche. Just because I'm interested in questions of efficiency doesn't mean I have a "WoW mentality". Grow up.

I might be a douche but you are a freaking noobs, Go back to Wow