Bernie Sanders at his best

[Ranndom]

Originally Posted by Era'viss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bird of a feather all flock together.

Not really. Just because we agree doesnt mean we like each other or how were gonna get there

[Patriam1066]

Minimum wage increases....

Don't work. It really is that simple. Businesses will just automate jobs or fire people. I get that you don't mind businesses failing, but the goal was to raise wages. If the successful ones automate and the losing enterprises fail entirely, who exactly had a wage increase?

The corporations are the enemy gentlemen. Not the mom and pop shop on your corner employing 15 year olds as cashiers and stock boys ....

Jesus Christ let Bernie sanders talk, you're starting to sound like Hugo Chavez

[Ranndom]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Minimum wage increases....

Don't work. It really is that simple. Businesses will just automate jobs or fire people. I get that you don't mind businesses failing, but the goal was to raise wages. If the successful ones automate and the losing enterprises fail entirely, who exactly had a wage increase?

The corporations are the enemy gentlemen. Not the mom and pop shop on your corner employing 15 year olds as cashiers and stock boys ....

Jesus Christ let Bernie sanders talk, you're starting to sound like Hugo Chavez

Seattle tried 15 minimum. People in mass began begging for less hours or simply stopped working because they were making too much to recieve welfare payments.
Walmart tried bumping minimum, They cut hours en mass, forced people to take hour lunches, and who knows what else.
So yea, its not the wage its the dollar....And the people.
However, Walmart is what someone like bernie becomes with power. Socialism is a baad answer

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Minimum wage increases....

Don't work. It really is that simple. Businesses will just automate jobs or fire people. I get that you don't mind businesses failing, but the goal was to raise wages. If the successful ones automate and the losing enterprises fail entirely, who exactly had a wage increase?

The corporations are the enemy gentlemen. Not the mom and pop shop on your corner employing 15 year olds as cashiers and stock boys ....

Jesus Christ let Bernie sanders talk, you're starting to sound like Hugo Chavez

Oh shit, you actually listen to their jobs rhetoric.

Meanwhile, CostCo pays all their employees a living wage and they absolutely decimate Wal-Mart and run an extremely profitable enterprise. And entire fucking countries pay the vast majority of their citizens a living wage, far more than in the United States, and business is booming.

I mean, think about who exactly stands to benefit from telling you the world will end if wages increase? Is it the same people who will shutter an entire store if they hear talk about unions? If your business model relies on paying people in lint and pennies, your business should not exist. You're right that corporations are the enemy, and this behavior is largely corporate-centric, but don't summarily dismiss the entire minimum wage model as not working. It's just not true.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh shit, you actually listen to their jobs rhetoric.

Meanwhile, CostCo pays all their employees a living wage and they absolutely decimate Wal-Mart and run an extremely profitable enterprise. And entire fucking countries pay the vast majority of their citizens a living wage, far more than in the United States, and business is booming.

I mean, think about who exactly stands to benefit from telling you the world will end if wages increase? Is it the same people who will shutter an entire store if they hear talk about unions? If your business model relies on paying people in lint and pennies, your business should not exist. You're right that corporations are the enemy, and this behavior is largely corporate-centric, but don't summarily dismiss the entire minimum wage model as not working. It's just not true.

The people who groom my dog are an elderly couple. They run a small POS establishment, but they are good at what they do and nice as fuck. They have a crew of high school kids that play with all of the dogs in the back.

Do you think CostCo has the same overhead as Groomies? One size fit all doesn't work. If it does, why don't we just raise the federal minimum wage to $100 an hour. The numbers obviously don't matter. In addition, let's just ignore that Texas has a GDP per capita that is less than California or Maryland. Let's just let the federal government, made up of clearly competent people like Nancy Pelosi and Ted Cruz, step on the states and municipalities and manage microeconomics.

Walmart and CostCo can be forced into a minimum wage. The vast majority of businesses are small and will actually be hurt by these policies. If you want to help Wall Street to the detriment of Main Street, it's a great policy.

The mandated minimum income is a much better idea. Era'viss I think mentioned it. If y'all feel so compelled to guarantee people a minimum standard of living, then do it on the backs of banks and massive multinationals that don't really help the average American. I really don't see how fucking over the people who groom my dog and pay the high school kids who work there for $7.25 an hour accomplishes anything. Most of the kids out here are wealthy anyway. They want the job for spending money and it looks like the easiest thing in the world.

Oh. And finally, if you raise the minimum wage massively, you're going to see increased automation. I know you're smart enough to see that. Hell, no matter what the minimum wage is in the future, that will continue to happen. The minimum income replacing welfare / food stamps is better for this as well.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The people who groom my dog are an elderly couple. They run a small POS establishment, but they are good at what they do and nice as fuck. They have a crew of high school kids that play with all of the dogs in the back.

Do you think CostCo has the same overhead as Groomies? One size fit all doesn't work. If it does, why don't we just raise the federal minimum wage to $100 an hour. The numbers obviously don't matter. In addition, let's just ignore that Texas has a GDP per capita that is less than California or Maryland. Let's just let the federal government, made up of clearly competent people like Nancy Pelosi and Ted Cruz, step on the states and municipalities and manage microeconomics.

Walmart and CostCo can be forced into a minimum wage. The vast majority of businesses are small and will actually be hurt by these policies. If you want to help Wall Street to the detriment of Main Street, it's a great policy.

The mandated minimum income is a much better idea. Era'viss I think mentioned it. If y'all feel so compelled to guarantee people a minimum standard of living, then do it on the backs of banks and massive multinationals that don't really help the average American. I really don't see how fucking over the people who groom my dog and pay the high school kids who work there for $7.25 an hour accomplishes anything. Most of the kids out here are wealthy anyway. They want the job for spending money and it looks like the easiest thing in the world.

Oh. And finally, if you raise the minimum wage massively, you're going to see increased automation. I know you're smart enough to see that. Hell, no matter what the minimum wage is in the future, that will continue to happen. The minimum income replacing welfare / food stamps is better for this as well.

I took issue with your broad contention that "minimum wage increases don't work", and you reasoning you provided, that it just results in firings. That is a falsehood. I didn't say a blanket federally mandated minimum wage is the answer, I think the solution needs to be more complex than that, and basic income is one idea.

Again, if your business model relies on the exploitation of labor, your business should not exist in the form it does. Paying high school kids spending money is one thing, and that's clearly not what I'm talking about, and there are good ways to differentiate between that and actual subsistence labor in terms of regulations. For every elderly white dog groomer out there paying some good old wholesome white boys $7.25 an hour to play with dogs, there's a motel paying some middle aged Mexican $7.25 an hour to clean up sploogy bedding, or a Starbucks paying a struggling 20-something $7.25 an hour to make coffee. You could make the same argument for all those examples. "b-b-b-b-but I need to exploit cheap labor to get by." No, you don't.

[Aviann]

All of you should listen to Jeremy.

[Era'viss]

Originally Posted by Aviann [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All of you should listen to Jeremy.

Listening to an interview with this guy from about a month ago... if it is the correct Jeremy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYvFWCzMTeY

Like what I'm hearing, but he has this shaky feeling. At times it sounds like he's running for President on a dare.

[iruinedyourday]

We had a min wage increase. The only business that closed were ones that sucked anyway.

now there is a comic book shop in place of a failed furniture store owned by an ahole.

profit!

[Rararboker]

Makes me think of what happened in San Diego when obamacare went into affect. Companies all started giving minimum wage employees shorter hours so they wouldn't qualify for the "free health care".

Govt shouldn't be involved in this stuff imo. They fuck it up.