Just a reminder for new and old players regarding Real Money Transactions (RMT)

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't accept larges sums of plat with nothing in return from anyone for any reason. That will get you flagged straight up.

I mean I understand this is well-intentioned, but I'd really rather people not listen to this advice. It's true that it can get you flagged if the person giving you the platinum happens to be an RMTer, or if you happen to be an RMTer, but I really don't see the purpose in taking extreme measures like avoiding certain transactions altogether.

This will lead to chilling effects. I don't think it's a coincidence that people are much more reluctant to help with item and plat transfers after the last banwave, but I also think people's concerns are largely unfounded. I just want to stress that you can rely on the staff to do their job - you're not gonna get permabanned if you've done nothing wrong.

Not stressing out over the safety of certain transactions and keeping the willingness to help other people and trade freely alive is much more important than saving yourself a few days of playtime in the unlikely event that you get caught in a banwave. I have done twice as many transactions that will scan as highly suspicious if they happened to have involved an RMTer as I had done when my account was banned in the last banwave. And you know what? I'm not worried about it. I turned on logging. I don't RMT. It doesn't need to be more complicated than that.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean I understand this is well-intentioned, but I'd really rather people not listen to this advice. It's true that it can get you flagged if the person giving you the platinum happens to be an RMTer, or if you happen to be an RMTer, but I really don't see the purpose in taking extreme measures like avoiding certain transactions altogether.

This. It's an amazing tradition on this server for higher-level players to give massive gifts to lower-level players. Once, an incredibly nice player that I had literally just met that night gave me the JBB (25k value) off his back (er wrist). And I've heard of many similar stories of random generosity.

Someday, when I no longer need it anymore, I plan on doing the exact same thing, and it would be tragic if a lower-level shaman turned me down because they were afraid of an RMT ban. Blue is a really special place; let's not let RMTers and fear ruin it.

[Man0warr]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean I understand this is well-intentioned, but I'd really rather people not listen to this advice. It's true that it can get you flagged if the person giving you the platinum happens to be an RMTer, or if you happen to be an RMTer, but I really don't see the purpose in taking extreme measures like avoiding certain transactions altogether.

This will lead to chilling effects. I don't think it's a coincidence that people are much more reluctant to help with item and plat transfers after the last banwave, but I also think people's concerns are largely unfounded. I just want to stress that you can rely on the staff to do their job - you're not gonna get permabanned if you've done nothing wrong.

Not stressing out over the safety of certain transactions and keeping the willingness to help other people and trade freely alive is much more important than saving yourself a few days of playtime in the unlikely event that you get caught in a banwave. I have done twice as many transactions that will scan as highly suspicious if they happened to have involved an RMTer as I had done when my account was banned in the last banwave. And you know what? I'm not worried about it. I turned on logging. I don't RMT. It doesn't need to be more complicated than that.

Literally everyone in my guild falsely banned last time was either due to 1) getting money from RMTers for Chardok AE PL or other PL types or 2) Epic MQs to RMTers.

It takes weeks to get yourself unbanned even if you have logs of the transactions proving it was for PLing or MQing and you had no knowledge of where the plat was from. If you don't keep logs you may never get unbanned.

I personally don't do plat transfers for non-guildies anymore because of this. It's not worth the risk.

This. It's an amazing tradition on this server for higher-level players to give massive gifts to lower-level players. Once, an incredibly nice player that I had literally just met that night gave me the JBB (25k value) off his back (er wrist). And I've heard of many similar stories of random generosity.

Someday, when I no longer need it anymore, I plan on doing the exact same thing, and it would be tragic if a lower-level shaman turned me down because they were afraid of an RMT ban. Blue is a really special place; let's not let RMTers and fear ruin it.

There is a difference between giving out items to lowbies and large sums of plat.

It's not fear - it's literally something Sirken warned off in his post. They don't discriminate on banning people. If you don't keep logs and you get flagged for some reason, they are not going to unban you.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It takes weeks to get yourself unbanned even if you have logs of the transactions proving it was for PLing or MQing and you had no knowledge of where the plat was from. If you don't keep logs you may never get unbanned.

I had no logs and a very hazy recollection of the transaction that got me flagged in the last banwave, and it only took a couple days to get my account back. Granted, I did have to give them some pretty good ideas concerning which NPC was involved in the MQ, and who might have purchased it and when - and I had an EC Tunnel thread with a "sold" edit (dear lord, please bring back editing in the EC Tunnel forum) matching the timestamp of the transaction in question.

I very much doubt that anyone who's truly innocent runs the risk of being permabanned in a banwave. It might take a lot longer if you have absolutely no information to give them, or if you're being difficult and impatient. I could be wrong; the truth probably lies somewhere between us.

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I personally don't do plat transfers for non-guildies anymore because of this. It's not worth the risk.

Your intuitions about your guildies being clean-handed are probably off. I don't know which guild you're in, but as a rule of thumb this is usually the case - RMTers can be anywhere.

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is a difference between giving out items to lowbies and large sums of plat.

It's not fear - it's literally something Sirken warned off in his post. They don't discriminate on banning people.

Point taken, but I wasn't really talking about helping out newbies - I was more talking about genuine large platinum and item transfers. Sometimes you really do need to unload 50k from your main to your mule, or transfer a CoF or a Fungi - I'd be disappointed if we ended up in an environment where literally everyone ignores transfer requests that come from outside their own guild, when the very same transfer coming from within their guild would run them the same risk.

Sirken wasn't suggesting we should never accept large sums/big items under any conditions whatsoever, he was just explaining that RMT banwaves are indiscriminate and each ban is reviewed on a case-by-case basis.

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you don't keep logs and you get flagged for some reason, they are not going to unban you.

I can tell you from experience that this isn't true, but you should play as if it is. Everyone should have logging enabled; no exceptions.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by fauxreigner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Really casual player here, just getting back into the game. I have a couple of questions about what to do while I'm playing to cover my butt in case I'm unjustly punished in the future. I understand that this is very unlikely to occur but I'd like to have evidence if I have to prove myself innocent.

How will enabling logging help a player prove himself innocent in the event he is wrongly caught in a banwave? Does a player log have some information that GM's can't see in server logs? Do I need to do anything to timestamp and archive my play logs between playing sessions?

If you enable your log, it will log everything that appears in your chat window(s) with a date and time stamp.

Unless the server records every single tell sent, then GMs won't have access to your discussion with the other player(s) regarding your trade.

[Teneran]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you enable your log, it will log everything that appears in your chat window(s) with a date and time stamp.

Unless the server records every single tell sent, then GMs won't have access to your discussion with the other player(s) regarding your trade.

I thought EVERYTHING was saved server side; guildchat, ooc, tells, /say, etc. Am I wrong about this?

One could easily fake a log file ... if it isn't saved serverside it's meaningless.

[Temig]

Originally Posted by Teneran [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought EVERYTHING was saved server side; guildchat, ooc, tells, /say, etc. Am I wrong about this?

One could easily fake a log file ... if it isn't saved serverside it's meaningless.

IIRC, no communication at all is stored server-side. I could be wrong on this but I'm fairly sure I remember someone on staff stating as such.

[Teneran]

Originally Posted by Temig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IIRC, no communication at all is stored server-side. I could be wrong on this but I'm fairly sure I remember someone on staff stating as such.

Hmmmm, ok, I'll turn my log file on I guess then. I've held cash for a monk friend I play with from time to time to keep his weight down but the max trade was 696pp, hardly worrisome to anyone I'm sure.

Stupid question ... I can't recall for the life of me how to take a screenshot and a quick wiki and forum search wasn't helpful. A reminder on how to do that would be greatly appreciated.

[fauxreigner]

Originally Posted by Temig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only thing a log could ever possibly help with would be if you made some sort of multiple-party trade (ie. I'll give you XX plat on this char, and you can give YY item to my other character). It would give you details regarding character names etc. that may help their investigation, but staff would still verify everything via server logs -- you'd just possibly give them a place to look.

Oh, I see. Narrowing the search space makes sense, but I thought maybe there was more to it.

Thanks for the response.

[rekreant]

Logging everything and screen shotting is classic, didnt yall know?