Isn't there a better way to distribute raid loot? If not which is most fair?

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by Tanthallas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then just play and put in for an item occasionally with your DKP....

No Sloan. It was always playing ALOT to get the DKP in the first place and then plotting when an item I wanted dropped. I didn't spend 50 dkp on Mrylokar Legs or win the DHB that Shinko really wanted by chance.

The difference is motivation. DKP focuses motivation on self advancement while council motivates players more towards guild advancement. Upgrading the guild as a whole far outweighs allowing individuals free reign to shout, "MINE!"

[Tanthallas]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No Sloan. It was always playing ALOT to get the DKP in the first place and then plotting when an item I wanted dropped. I didn't spend 50 dkp on Mrylokar Legs or win the DHB that Shinko really wanted by chance.

The difference is motivation. DKP focuses motivation on self advancement while council motivates players more towards guild advancement. Upgrading the guild as a whole far outweighs allowing individuals free reign to shout, "MINE!"

Im not sure you are making an argument against DKP seeing as the same may and does apply to loot council. If someone has a MINE attitude, they will have that attitude either way and try to manipulate either system. The primary reason for straight DKP as far as I saw it was that FE was brand new and without a strong base. In order to build trust in the guild and not have any semblance of favoritism in loot it was necessary to have a system that did not rely on anyone's whims or interpretations. You have to remember that I didn't get a piece of loot for about 6 months after FE formed, right?

I always said that a loot council system would be more efficient if all of its requirements were there, but your argument here seems to be more focused on your personality rather than the need for either system.

<3

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DKP always felt completely self centered and greedy. It felt that way on live. It absolutely was that way in FE. I don't care for it. I spend too much time plotting and manipulating the system in my favor when I'd rather just play and put in for an item occasionally.

DKP was the only way for me to actually plan out my gear and prioritize.

Certain items are vastly more valuable to me than others. And I would save DKP for them and spend it accordingly. With a Loot Council, I can't really explain that other than in the single tell I send the people. If the Druid VP Robe weren't tradeable I would save all my DKP for it and burn it all on that, for example. Would abstain from plenty of other drops just to make sure I am guaranteed that drop if it drops.

DKP Systems are also nice because you have a finite amount you can work with so you can't hoard all the loots. Some (retarded) systems would award the item to the person with the highest DKP total at a fixed price. These players ended up being able to win entire expansions of BIS without being unthroned from their top DKP slot. But the free-bid systems without fixed amounts worked pretty well in my experience.

A little oversight to prevent complete free-market retardation was nice (IE preventing BIS Daggers from going to rangers, and BIS aggro weapons from going to rogues, etc.) and a little bit of a progression focus when expansions released (warrior MTs get priority), and DKP systems work well.

[Juryiel]

I tend to prefer DKP but have been in guilds with all sorts of systems and as long as the people are good, things turn out fair. So don't join crappy guilds. As far as being with someone for a month, at that stage you really don't have a good sense as to who deserves what. Maybe you were with them for a month but the person getting over you was with them for 5 and nothing dropped for him. To me it sounds like you are just being very impatient and seeing only your own limited perspective. By 1 month in a guild i have 0 expectations (though I often get stuff). By 4 months I probably shoudl have gotten a couple of pieces of something, etc, and have begun to develop a sense of who deserves what. By 9 months to a year i basically know if someone is getting things that doesn't deserve them. At 1 month there is no way I can know who contributed what and who deserves what, I barely know the guild.

Also, this server is unique in that progression is super slow (4 years of Kunark) so unless the guilds you're joining are giving planar loot to alts over new full members, you should not be running into this issue. The 'mains' in the lead of these guilds will have gotten planar loot long, long ago, and be mostly raiding to help others.

[kaev]

You hear stories about corrupt leadership fucking up loot distribution regardless of system. But DKP is the only system where I've heard stories of corrupt membership fucking up loot distribution (i.e. all the monks get together and agree on a loot rotation so they avoid competing vs. one another on class loots, thus they all can hoard DKP to bid for all/all gear.)

I'll always prefer loot council. I have no issue with holding leadership accountable, that's gonna be necessary under any system, but if I need to be suspicious of the entire guild membership I'm looking for a new guild.

[Kadron]

In Anonymous, we are a casual raid guild. We use a zero DKP system to make sure everyone has a chance at obtaining loot. You collect X amount per raid and per harder target (epic mobs and soon class R mobs). If an item drops, the person with the most DKP gets to receive the item and loses ALL their DKP. Now more casual players get to loot other items that drop. You don't have to make every raid and have huge numbers to get loot.

Now you might say, "What about the more hardcore that show up all the time?" Well, they will get geared faster, so now they can stock pile that DKP and wait for that Cloak of Flames or BCG to drop and spend it then.
There is no perfect DKP system but we try to make sure everyone gets something.

[Cecily]

The whole appeal of DKP is having control over when you get your items. That's where I'm going w/ the MINE thing. It's less important than having the right stuff on the right people. Then again we're in Kunark and the gear is all junk. It honestly doesn't matter what you do. You are right though, my argument is completely based off my personality and my opinions about the system. Logically arguing about the merits of one form of elfsim loot distribution being better than another is just burning brain cells. Either works fine. I choose instead the emotional argument that DKP feels greedy to me and makes me cutthroat towards my guildmates. I don't like it.

[DrKvothe]

I never understood why a straight up /random, conducted either by leadership or actual players, isn't considered fair. Show up to twice as many raids, get twice as many items. Keeps from zerg recruiting when senior members understand they'll be losing items to the new guys, but encourages participation because every raid could be the raid you get your item!

"I've spent more time at this camp so I get first dibs" has never been the way we determine 6-man loot, right?

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by DrKvothe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never understood why a straight up /random, conducted either by leadership or actual players, isn't considered fair. Show up to twice as many raids, get twice as many items.

ROLEPLAY SCENARIO

Guild A gets a shot at Trakanon once every few months due to the raid scene on the server. Donal's BP drops, straight up /random happens, the cleric who logs in once a month for raids happens to win the BP over clerics who have been raiding consistently with the guild. In this exercise, you will roleplay a guild leader frantically trying to convince all those other clerics to remain with your guild and devising a new method of distributing high-value/high-rarity loot...

[Crom]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ROLEPLAY SCENARIO

Guild A gets a shot at Trakanon once every few months due to the raid scene on the server. Donal's BP drops, straight up /random happens, the cleric who logs in once a month for raids happens to win the BP over clerics who have been raiding consistently with the guild. In this exercise, you will roleplay a guild leader frantically trying to convince all those other clerics to remain with your guild and devising a new method of distributing high-value/high-rarity loot...

+1

This is what all loot systems try to prevent.

Most people want a system that rewards hard work, "Do the work get the reward".