(Yet Another) Necromancer Race Thread

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by rgostic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This guy Vexenu is either trolling, or he's never heard of the Stone of Morid, because he'd have to be framing it up real hard to bring PvP into a comparison of necromancer races and fail to mention it, yet alone equip his iksar template with a sarnak ceremonial dagger.

The purpose was to compare the INT/mana of Erudites vs. Iksars in identical PvP gear. The Stone of Morid is a great item but it doesn't have any impact on INT/mana, so I didn't include it. So yes, an Iksar can have an additional +30 Fire/Cold resist in exchange for having 600 less mana. That's a pretty bad tradeoff, in my opinion, but I suppose worth considering in an overall analysis of Erudite vs. Iksar for PvP purposes. Thanks for pointing that out.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by eqberserk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My wife and I are planning to play together (pending IP allowance). I want to play an Iksar Necro and she wants to play a Human Druid. Considering the race/faction issues, should I consider going Human Necro, or is it easy enough to get around my concerns? I've never played old school EQ, so never had to worry about watching out for guards, etc.

There are already threads covering the impact Necromancer race has on faction, but the quick summary of them is that any non-Iksar race will have a much easier time fixing faction (if it even needs fixing; some places are ok with good race necros already). However, Iksar faction can still be fixed, it just takes longer (and there are lots of tricks to avoid needing to fix it, like using trick angles to bank with hostile bankers).

Because the Iksar regen is so powerful, most would argue that the trouble of having to do those tricks/spend more time fixing faction (and more time leveling for that matter) is worthwhile in the long run: you can spend time to level and faction, but you can't spend time to give a Human regen. My point in this thread was to identify cases where other races might be better (eg. PvP or creating an alt to farm), but for your primary character everyone agrees the min/max best choice is Iksar.

Also thanks to everyone posting in this thread (especially Vexenu for his link to his great post and Uteunayr for his treatise), it's been very educational.

[Poosammich]

Working off of old memory here, but here goes....

First I was an Erudite Necro on live up through PoP.... I rolled Erud strictly for the shoulders which I did eventually get. That said on p99 I'm just a lowly Iksar lvl 20 necro.... However I can say at least thus far, the AC, AND the Regen have saved my ass more than once. I'll leave final judgement for my camp in EC that will be here soon(around 26). Those druids at that tower, I could barely keep the camp clear before, but I think I'll do much better this time around. I rarely have to direct tap, and almost never cast Leech. Whereas in my 20's on my Erud I had leech up constantly, and still had to direct tap. At lvl 20 while sitting I lose 0 HP to lich.

I could be playing that much better, or it could be the racial regen/AC....

PS

Play what you want, and Erud Necros do get some sexy shoulders if you'll do the work.

PPS

Yes I know this is a bland comment, but given I was an Erud Necro on live I figured I would chime in.

[Nimmanu]

I guess my question for you would be, do you intend to be leveling forever? Or do you intend to max out and farm plat, go raiding, etc. etc.?

The exp penalty only factors in until you max out. Necros, if played well, can max out fairly quickly. Then what?


((Sorry, I see that you covered this, and your char isn't intended to ever max out. Proceed to ignore post. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ))

[Nimmanu]

Originally Posted by sox7d [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're not min-maxing, you might as well not even play this game. Period.

Utter twaddle. Whatever floats YOUR boat, go for it.

I absolutely love the game, and I'm the last person anyone would call a min-maxxer.

I raided back in the day, hardcore. Fear became routine for us. I wasn't a min-maxxer back then, either. Now, I was in "min-maxxed" gear, but I wasn't the one who did the work of figuring those numbers out.

That's what men are for. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Victorio]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I remembered analyzing this sometime back, so it may have been me. Here's the post:



http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...gen#post398181

There's a lot wrong with your analysis. You ignore the post-50 levels, use some incorrect numbers, and don't do a true percentage comparison.

For example, yes, at level 11 you're only getting an extra 10 mana per minute. But you can only meditate back 50 mana per minute, so that 10 per minute is a 20% increase and does make up for the penalty. At 34, when using Call of bones (which takes 11 hp, not 16), your increase will only be around 15%, not enough to make up for the 20% penalty, but mitigating most of it. At 51, using lich (which takes 22 hp so your numbers are also wrong for), your increase is around 34%, more than enough to make up for the penalty. By 56, you have an increase of over 45%.

These values also all assume that you're constantly sitting. Factoring in some time spent standing and the values, especially post 50, shift dramatically further in iksar's favor.

Yes, pre-50, the extra mana regeneration doesn't generally overcome the experience penalty, but it makes up for a significant part of it. Post 50, it much more than makes up for it. By 60, with the relative amount of time that those levels take, it should have made up for it, and you'll be left with a much nicer character.

[toolshed]

Check out the travel guide in my sig for places you can bank/vendor as an iksar necro. There are tons of places and once you know where the main ones are (MT, HHK, FP, OT, druid rings) you can bank/vendor really easily nearly anywhere

[Uteunayr]

Faction on an Iksar Necro isn't bad at all to be honest, and I found it far more preferable to my Dark Elf. If you're a human, an erudite, or a gnome, you don't have an evil race modifier, but you have a number of tools at your disposal as a necromancer to negate this:

1- First, you have Lich form, which lets you go to most evil cities just fine (Neriak is basically the evil capital of the game, and you're free to go anywhere within with Skeleton form).

2- Since you're playing with a druid, they can wolf form you.

3- You also have FD, and Circlet of Shadows, allowing you to travel just about anywhere, through any city without too much worry.

4- Worried about finding vendors? If you're playing with a druid, they can port you to Steamfont, WC, any of the druid rings with a spell vendor, and you can sell there.

5- You can also FD next to any banker, and use that banker.

6- As an Iksar, you actually get to go into Cabilis without any faction work, which is a bitch and a half to get. That can be really helpful. While other necromancers have to run around to different cities to find a few pet spells, or worry about OT faction, every spell you need that isn't research is sold in Cabilis last I checked. But again, you could also just use Skeleton form. (Noticing a pattern? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.])

For actual factioning up in Antonica, to have Freeport as a home away from home (for EC):

1- Travel around Freeport a lot. Wait for someone to kill Lucan. Tag him. After 3 kills, you're max warmly in North Freeport. Doesn't take long at all. People kill Lucan pretty much every time he respawns.

2- Get a druid friend (such as the questioner's SO) to wolf form you and do Rohand's Brandy. A half hour, and you'll be max warmly with all legal Qeynos and Freeport merchants.

And lastly for Odus, if you want faction with Paineel, go kill Erudite guards. They are around level 20-30, and it doesn't take many at all to get to apprehensive with Paineel. Or just use skeleton form.

I have never really had to spend a lot of time doing faction work, and I am rarely inconvenienced by my lack of faction.

Originally Posted by Victorio [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

By 60, with the relative amount of time that those levels take, it should have made up for it, and you'll be left with a much nicer character.

This is a pretty important thing: 50-60 is a real grind. It isn't very forgiving. Also, and more importantly: Fuck level 54. That level can go die in a fire.

[Swish]

Iksars generally... don't give a shit about faction, because faction doesn't give a shit about you [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Frees you up to kill just about anything outside of Cabilis, it's great <3

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Iksars generally... don't give a shit about faction, because faction doesn't give a shit about you [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Frees you up to kill just about anything outside of Cabilis, it's great <3

So damn true. That's what I see as being the best part about being a necromancer. You get to walk around the game world while leveling up, and pretty much everything is just another potential source of experience. It is quite freeing.