Shamen Vs. Druids as Soloers

[Tork]

I don't really have a dog in the fight, but '30 seconds to a minute a most' downtime for soloing sounds like a parody of an MMO to me - different perceptions I guess.

I like that EQ is hard, and that classes are profoundly different - I dislike how many MMOs feel like single player games with an over abundance of poorly named, scripted and AI'd mobs.

[Estu]

Originally Posted by Tork [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't really have a dog in the fight, but '30 seconds to a minute a most' downtime for soloing sounds like a parody of an MMO to me - different perceptions I guess.

I like that EQ is hard, and that classes are profoundly different - I dislike how many MMOs feel like single player games with an over abundance of poorly named, scripted and AI'd mobs.

There's a difference between actual difficulty and sitting for 10 minutes doing nothing. It's a thoroughly stupid mechanic. EQ has ups over WoW in real difficulty, but huge downtimes are pointless - again, unless they're meant to force you to group, but a druid presumably is supposed to be able to solo. And really, I don't see how WoW mob AIs are worse than EQ mob AIs.

[Itchybottom]

Originally Posted by Estu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's a difference between actual difficulty and sitting for 10 minutes doing nothing. It's a thoroughly stupid mechanic. EQ has ups over WoW in real difficulty, but huge downtimes are pointless - again, unless they're meant to force you to group, but a druid presumably is supposed to be able to solo. And really, I don't see how WoW mob AIs are worse than EQ mob AIs.

I've given up on reasoning with most of the EQ > WoW crowd.

Back to the thread through, shaman can definitely handle dungeons better than a druid. I found myself relying on my warden symbol of Tunare in dungeons, because all of my mana was spent on root rotting stuff that'd kill me if it got in range (even kobold shamans, in SoldungB for example.) My shaman friends however, just sicked dogdog on whatever, slowed the mob, and walked up and started beating the crap out of it with his Gardash occasionally re-applying ebolt. It continued like that all the way through Luclin in Maiden's Eye. I was stuck kiting crap, my shaman friend was always right in the thick of it. Shamans can afford more mistakes.

[purist]

To the OP who said something about Shaman soloing being more "pleasant" than Druids. There's nothing pleasant about having a DoT that costs 15-20% of your mana pool get resisted two-three times in a row, or having a root break after 0.5 seconds after landing. And then watching a Mage waltz into your camp and dominate it without breaking a sweat. Expect to be frustrated, especially 'till 34. There's no pleasantry to be had here.

[Tetrian]

Originally Posted by Itchybottom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've given up on reasoning with most of the EQ > WoW crowd.

Back to the thread through, shaman can definitely handle dungeons better than a druid. I found myself relying on my warden symbol of Tunare in dungeons, because all of my mana was spent on root rotting stuff that'd kill me if it got in range (even kobold shamans, in SoldungB for example.) My shaman friends however, just sicked dogdog on whatever, slowed the mob, and walked up and started beating the crap out of it with his Gardash occasionally re-applying ebolt. It continued like that all the way through Luclin in Maiden's Eye. I was stuck kiting crap, my shaman friend was always right in the thick of it. Shamans can afford more mistakes.

Considered boosting your AC and getting a fungi tunic instead of going for the standard 200 wis and + mana deal? - The only time you need the wisdom and mana is when you fill the bar prior to a kite or similar. This game is all about the mana/health regen and damage mitigation especially in dungeons. Most druids in live never got that memo.

Dont get me wrong, i'm not saying that shamans dont have a safer margain when it comes to bad luck on ressists simply due to slow, but i'd wager a bet that a druid can manage any encounter a shaman can do, with the right gear and gimmic items present.

Most druids in EQ played like retards on live. When in fact the class, with the right gear, is close to ideal for almost any solo encounter, indoors and out.

Druids are the pretty much the most versatile and powerfull class in this game, especially after kunark - Sure shamans do have a small edge on em straight up due to slow/canni but they also have some down sides, One of them is that they get to walk for it - A druid who fails at something is only a few minutes away from another go.

Another thing is ressists on dots. Druid dots are extremely effective both ratio and ressist wise. Same goes for damage shields. If potion stacked they rape face.


-Tetrian

[Phelp]

Originally Posted by Tetrian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Most druids in EQ played like retards on live. When in fact the class, with the right gear, is close to ideal for almost any solo encounter, indoors and out.

Druids are the pretty much the most versatile and powerfull class in this game, especially after kunark - Sure shamans do have a small edge on em straight up due to slow/canni but they also have some down sides, One of them is that they get to walk for it - A druid who fails at something is only a few minutes away from another go.

Another thing is ressists on dots. Druid dots are extremely effective both ratio and ressist wise. Same goes for damage shields. If potion stacked they rape face.


-Tetrian

I really wonder if you actually played EQ after kunark or even through kunark. Ports were god like, quading was damn nice. That is about all they had going for them. Take a druid and shaman into an item camp(most of them were indoors) and the shaman would smash just about any druid even if they were not stupid druids.

I do not see how you can even put them in same catagory.

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by Estu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's a difference between actual difficulty and sitting for 10 minutes doing nothing. It's a thoroughly stupid mechanic. EQ has ups over WoW in real difficulty, but huge downtimes are pointless - again, unless they're meant to force you to group, but a druid presumably is supposed to be able to solo. And really, I don't see how WoW mob AIs are worse than EQ mob AIs.

"I'm going to stop chasing you and run back to my circlejerk of other mobs, because I am so fucking artificially intelligent."

Tethering of mobs = joke

[Itchybottom]

Originally Posted by Harrison [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"I'm going to stop chasing you and run back to my circlejerk of other mobs, because I am so fucking artificially intelligent."

Tethering of mobs = joke

Oh? Kunark? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Estu]

Originally Posted by Harrison [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"I'm going to stop chasing you and run back to my circlejerk of other mobs, because I am so fucking artificially intelligent."

Tethering of mobs = joke

THAT'S your complaint? Really? The fact that mobs don't run after you all the way to the zone? That's not bad AI, that's a design choice. Just like the design choice in both EQ and WoW that mobs who are about 10 feet away from each other and friendly with each other won't group aggro if you pull one and not the other, but if they're 9 feet away, they will.

Some camps have inseparable mobs, but a lot of them have some separable mobs, and it makes no sense from the standpoint of being realistic, since of course the mob in real life would be able to see its friend being attacked - but from a gameplay standpoint it makes sense that you don't want every friendly mob within 100 feet running after you the moment you attack its buddies, or even worse, the moment you walk into that huge radius that mobs would realistically notice you and start attacking.

And honestly, WoW mob tethering makes some sense even from an AI standpoint, because sometimes if you're pissed at someone you don't want to run for miles after them; if they start to run away, you might just go back to your house and sit there and lick your wounds.

From a design standpoint, it's a device to make the game a bit more convenient for the player. It makes the game easier in exchange for losing some of the riskiness and immersion of EverQuest, just like a lot of other things in WoW, but that doesn't make it necessarily worse. I can see the appeal of both options. I did get tired of WoW and go back to EverQuest, so maybe that speaks to something.

But honestly, calling that "bad AI" is just a thoroughly ridiculous statement. Try being less irrationally angry at WoW.

[Rael]

Shamans are KOS?