State of the Union

[Raavak]

I've been doing this for decades now... I've had to deal with a number of minimum wage increases. The first reaction we have is to slim down, and get rid of lower performing employees. The second is to raise prices. In a steady-state dream world we will always be at maximum efficiency and would only raise prices because everyone would be necessary. But we are fairly large, and unproductive people come and go.

But in the long run what happens, prices go up, cost of living goes up, taxes go up along with the deadweight losses therein... so purchasing power of a minimum wage worker actually decreases despite being paid more.

[Lojik]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not that simple. I know your Econ 101 professor sounded totally convincing and you feel confident parroting his perceived expertise everywhere you go, but sometimes (often) economists are wrong, or at the very least inaccurate or only marginally applicable to real circumstances.

This is some Alan Greenspan tier-"Financial regulation is bad!" followed by "I was wrong, sorry about that"-level horseshit.

Pull your head out of tea party ass and learn to think on your own

You're right, it's not that simple. Instead of flat out causing unemployment you can see other effects: reduced hours, benefits reduction, increased prices of anything requiring cheap labor, and the effects can be blurred and muddled a bit. Prices tend to arrive at an equilibrium and wages are no different. After a while wages will rise or fall to the equilibrium level which is the marginal product of labor, and one of my professors did a pretty simple example of why this happens.

Why i don't care for constant minimum wage increases is that you're trying to correct a symptom instead of a problem. The problem is that there are workers who are not skilled enough to make a certain amount of money. They can become more skilled in two ways, either education or work experience, and often times raising the minimum wage prices out unskilled workers so the 2nd choice is not an option. Also, when you prevent a firm from being able to discriminate based on price, they can start to discriminate based on other things.

Another thing to consider with a minimum wage though is welfare. If a person would make as much or more from welfare than they would working 40 hours a week at XX dollars, then they have no incentive to work. Looking at the hourly wage equivalents for welfare in some states (Hawai $17.50!!), it actually makes sense to me that raising the minimum wage would decrease unemployment.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You raise minimum wage.... where does the money for the wages come from? Hurr durr this is the only approach to the problem simplistic enough for me to understand, so I'm going to ignore anything outside the confines of my false dichotomy etc etc derp

From here:

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And here:

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Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've been doing this for decades now... I've had to deal with a number of minimum wage increases. The first reaction we have is to slim down, and get rid of lower performing employees. The second is to raise prices. In a steady-state dream world we will always be at maximum efficiency and would only raise prices because everyone would be necessary. But we are fairly large, and unproductive people come and go.

But in the long run what happens, prices go up, cost of living goes up, taxes go up along with the deadweight losses therein... so purchasing power of a minimum wage worker actually decreases despite being paid more.

Your bullshit doesn't mesh with a reality where a more highly compensated workforce is demonstrably more conducive to total economic prosperity in a developed economy. Take your bullshit anywhere else where labor is paid a living wage and you'll be laughed back to Ameristan.

You're living in the smoldering ruins of Reaganomics and you're still stupid enough to keep trying to sell it.

[Utmost]

My nephew is Nick Chute, can someone make a .gif of when Michelle stands up in front of him and starts clapping?

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Lojik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...The problem is that there are workers who are not skilled enough to make a certain amount of money...

Right. The CEO won't take a paycut to employ a minimum wage worker... The people who lose are the ones who could and should work for less, because equilibrium wage for what they do is below minimum wage. And now this unemployed unskilled worker has to live in a higher cost of living environment.

No one is really for "slave" labor, but pay a worker what the job is worth.

[Blink]

Once you get to know people that play on p99 and emu's in general 90% of them end up being total scum irl and play them because they are poor.

Reading the forums you would swear everyone here is a young doctor dating a super model.

[Blink]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right. The CEO won't take a paycut to employ a minimum wage worker... The people who lose are the ones who could and should work for less, because equilibrium wage for what they do is below minimum wage. And now this unemployed unskilled worker has to live in a higher cost of living environment.

No one is really for "slave" labor, but pay a worker what the job is worth.

You do realize you are more than likely debating with said unskilled worker right? You are not going to convince a "victim" he doesn't deserve more.

[hatelore]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not that simple. I know your Econ 101 professor sounded totally convincing and you feel confident parroting his perceived expertise everywhere you go, but sometimes (often) economists are wrong, or at the very least inaccurate or only marginally applicable to real circumstances.

This is some Alan Greenspan tier-"Financial regulation is bad!" followed by "I was wrong, sorry about that"-level horseshit.

Pull your head out of tea party ass and learn to think on your own

I will agree with one thing regarding minimum wage... A worker working an hour for 2 gallons of gas sucks ass.. That I agree.

But what happens when it is raised? Do you think these corporations are just going keep all of there workers? No, there will be layoffs. raising it from 7 whatever to 10 is a pretty big jump. They will reduce there workforce and require more from the smaller workforce. These corporations that have a large amount of lower wage workers already have to deal with in an increase from obamacare, which will in turn cause more lay offs.

What makes a fruitful economy? Ask yourself that.. Here is a scary fact, All we have done since 2004 is artificially prop up our economy. The unemployment rate is also artificially propped up. We have propped up our economy with so many fucking fake tools that is truly is scary. Did you know the federal government buys 90% of our treasury bonds? This whole idea that if we increase minimum wage it will help our economy is bogus lies told to you by the same liars that run our country...

And to think this guy has the gall to get up on a fucking podium and tell us that we need to pass legalization for illegal aliens? That we need to up the number of migrant workers coming in each year so they can compete against American's who truly do need the fucking job?

Its all a smoke and mirror show here kids. The government has sold out to big business a long time ago, the rats on both sides, not just the democrats, both sides.

I will be honest. I truly do hope the republicans are stupid enough to go against the American people and grant Amnesty to illegals. That will be the end of the Republican party, and hopefully..... It will produce a new party of true conservatives, not a party full of fake ass rhinos.

That's just my 2 cents, I don't sit on here claiming I know it all or that I am an economist. But I am a solid worker who has been a part of the American workforce for almost 20 years. Things are not looking better, no matter what the President or the New Your Times tries to tell you. We are in for a big hurting from what the past two presidents have done to this country.

[hatelore]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've been doing this for decades now... I've had to deal with a number of minimum wage increases. The first reaction we have is to slim down, and get rid of lower performing employees. The second is to raise prices. In a steady-state dream world we will always be at maximum efficiency and would only raise prices because everyone would be necessary. But we are fairly large, and unproductive people come and go.

But in the long run what happens, prices go up, cost of living goes up, taxes go up along with the deadweight losses therein... so purchasing power of a minimum wage worker actually decreases despite being paid more.

I completely agree with this.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Blink [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You do realize you are more than likely debating with said unskilled worker right? You are not going to convince a "victim" he doesn't deserve more.

Originally Posted by Blink [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Once you get to know people that play on p99 and emu's in general 90% of them end up being total scum irl and play them because they are poor.

Reading the forums you would swear everyone here is a young doctor dating a super model.

And I bet you're a multi-millionaire, right?

Got a $50k job you feel lucky to have? "Th-thanks for keeping me on, b-boss, s-sure I will work more hours without a raise, i-it's tough out there..."

Here's a fun exercise for you. Walk into work and say the word "Union" and see how fast they throw your ass out the door and bring in some other asshole who thinks employers are doing him a favor by "providing a job".

Spineless middle class fucks like you are an even bigger threat to the American way of life than unskilled fuckups and their woes.

And it may be worth noting for the purposes of ad hominem, my family has money. Everything was handed to me and I never had to work a day in my life for it, but I did anyway. I was given more capital than you'll likely earn in your lifetime. Isn't that fair? Isn't capitalism great?

So when you say to pay people what their labor is worth, I think that should go both ways, for the top and the bottom. Right now it only seems to apply to deadbeats...