Questions for Chest/BDA and others

[baalzy]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How is FE/TMO not being allowed to touch the T2 mobs during most periods giving them burnt crust again?

The burnt crust is agreeing to leave gore/vox/naggy/tal/fay alone as long as the filthy filthy tier2s never get more than 2 CT/VS/Trak/Inny per month (and preferably they'd only get 1). The tier2s also aren't allowed to even THINK about entering VP. Doesn't matter if the spawns for every mob are doubled, tier2 only gets 2 tops of each good non-vp mob.

There was the Sirken mandate, which basically doubled the spawns and reduced variance, giving 2 of those mobs to the tier2s. The tier1s sang its praises, they got to double their loot and the tier2s didn't get to go over their quota.

The tier2s realized that they were basically be dictated the tier1 terms while the tier1s were also getting heavily rewarded (yes, the fact that all their years of bad behavior was just rewarded I'm sure is part of the reason some people objected to it) and dissented.

Rogean then proposes a plan where the total mobs are also increased, variance is greatly reduced, the Tier1s end up with more than they had before and the Tier2s get 2-3 of the good mobs. The tier1s whip up into a frenzy and refuse to go with this plan. Not because they're losing mobs, since they're actually gaining mobs, but because the tier2s are now getting 1 too many good mobs.

I almost guarantee they'd go with the Rogean plan if it only included repops on mobs that weren't CT/VS/Trak/Inny. A plan where Tier1 ends up with the same number but the Tier2s don't get any extras.

In both cases each side ends up with more than they had before. It's just the tier1s refuse to accept that Tier2s will get CT/VS/Trak/Inny.

Then when you throw in the fact that the Tier1s are outnumbered more than 2:1 by Tier2s and it just gets even sillier. Tier1s are basically the fat kid at a friends birthday party who ate all the cake and then whines when he doesn't get more ice cream then everyone else.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rogean then proposes a plan where the total mobs are also increased, variance is greatly reduced, the Tier1s end up with more than they had before and the Tier2s get 2-3 of the good mobs. The tier1s whip up into a frenzy and refuse to go with this plan.

Are you just making this shit up or do you really believe it?

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A race to VS from the zone-in as opposed to the pit just means the idiots in each guild are going to train everyone. At least with a camp-out this is minimized, as is leapfrogging since it basically puts people on even footing. It's merely a reduction of your ideal raiding race. A race from Seb zone-in to Trakanon lair isn't fun - it's just going to be a bunch of bullshit trains, or it's going to be FIVE MINUTES OF INTENSE COTHING.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for de-escalating the camp-out situation (except for Trakanon), but most people don't even really understand the series of events that led up to such a habit.

See, this is the problem. You say "well everyone is going to break the rules unless we make it impossible for the rules to be broken". That's what got us into this ridiculous variance-fest in the first place.

Training is against server rules. If you train, you will be suspended. If your guild trains, your guild will be raid suspended. It's not an inevitability that unending trains occur. Make the penalty for training harsh enough, and guilds won't train. They'll find a way to clear in safely or they'll CoH. I understand that GMs don't want to have to play police force on every single engage. That's why it's important that the penalty for training be severe enough. With a two-week raid suspension for any train that affects another guild's ability to engage, GMs aren't going to have to be ultra-vigilant. Guilds are going to be incentivized to take their own precautions against idiot members training and ruining the guild's ability to raid for half a month. If server staff really wants to get proactive, they can even create a system of penalties for false accusations and inconclusive fraps. That way they're only sifting through legitimate accusations, and if they do find an actual train, the hammer comes down hard enough to actually make guilds care.

As for leapfrogging, who cares? That's not a problem. Leapfrogging is classic EQ. If your guild is stupid enough to sit still and kill 3 mobs at a time while a full raid force follows behind you and grabs the last couple Juggs + Trak, then you don't deserve the first engage. The implications of this are obvious. Guilds will be incentivized to bite off the very maximum that they can chew. As soon as you think you can handle the adds plus the raid mob, you're going for it. This will lead to non-trivial encounters where 35 best-in-slot, fully raid buffed, extremely experienced raiders actually wipe on occasion.

And five minutes of intense CoHing is classic, too. If that's the route you want to go, you better be organized and you better engage as soon as you think you're able, because you're not going to have a huge time advantage when you're CoHing in your raid force.

[baalzy]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you just making this shit up or do you really believe it?

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=134706

Say what?

[quido]

the low-number bid suggestion is getting lost in a sea of jibjab =P put your support behind this proposition!

[mgellan]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is, trust me.

And since when does BDA care about racing anyway? You realize that 4 guilds clearing down to Trakanon is going to involve more training and petitioning than two guilds logging in right at the ledge? Frankly all these rules to stop camping at targets are completely worthless and shouldn't be entertained.

Not if guilds respect the fact that they've been beaten by the guild that got there in force before them (and is ahead of them clearing down) instead of not conceeding the mob til someone gets FTE...

Regards,
Mg

[baalzy]

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=134706

Say what?

Or are you talking about the population thing? Cause then I can also say 'Say what?'

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...81#post1267081

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you train, you will be suspended. If your guild trains, your guild will be raid suspended.

You have to admit there is a difference between an accidental train and a train meant to wreck havoc on another guild's raid. Assuming everyone plays nice the second type won't exist (good luck). But, you are going to have a lot more accidental trains in KC when VS spawns, and they may not even be caused by a raiding guild. This is a statistical probability and has nothing to do with people being jerks.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm beginning to think each guild selected 2 completely fucking retarded people to debate in the raid discussion forum to hinder all progress for the other side.

I feel like you just insulted me but I'm not sure.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=134706

Say what?

Where is TMO's response? Or are we no longer in Tier 1.