Re: Raid Situation

[Hitpoint]

I don't see what is so bad with the rules we had last night. T1 didn't get anything important taken from them. T2 gets lots of free mobs including guaranteed 8 t1 mobs a month. That shit was perfect. Imo the people who won't agree to it should come out and voice their objections.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see what is so bad with the rules we had last night. T1 didn't get anything important taken from them. T2 gets lots of free mobs including guaranteed 8 t1 mobs a month. That shit was perfect. Imo the people who won't agree to it should come out and voice their objections.

Well I don't know about perfect, but I couldn't really complain about it. And I'll complain about almost anything. So it had to be pretty damn decent, right?

[Imba]

oh and what would you want? 100% rotation?

[chief]

the 1000+ bda members all pm'd rogean disapproving of the current system, you heard it here first. Ces

[Nuggets]

Can i please just have my character moved out of posky ffs? ive been stuck there for a week.

-Moved to EC by Derubael, thank you

[chief]

BDA's raid proposal is where? I didn't get to read it just them shutting down everyone elses ideas.

[Redstars]

so why is there a suspension in the first place exactly?

[Ciroco]

Because we never learned to play nice.

[Sckrilla]

All that matters is that A-team GOT their epic(s)!

WE WANT GUTS FOR ZANDERR!

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Byrjun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The way I see it is that you have guilds like Doljo that want to compete and will never agree to something like a rotation. Then you have guilds like BDA that don't want competition and will only agree to a rotation. I'm not saying either is wrong (everyone is entitled to play the game the way they like) but the problem is that it's absolutely impossible to please both of these polar opposite preferences. Someone will have to give, I'm not sure if Rogean will allow guilds to filibuster the server's raid scene forever.

You can please both of these polar opposite preferences, so long as neither side is too greedy with their allotted share with which to play out their style of game.

The Staff Proposal offered this, as I have argued numerous times. The amended staff proposal (which was taken down following the pushed through current system) would go something like this, and I would like to hear how this isn't "fair", and what your definition is that brings you to such a conclusion.

You classify guilds as Hardcore (Tier 1), Casual (Tier 2). The hardcores manage the hardcores, the casuals manage the casuals. VP will always be hardcore, and any T2 guild that wants to engage in VP content must become hardcore, and play on hardcore terms (FFA, training, whatever it is you all like, as some people truly enjoy training, whatever Tier 1 decides). The epic mobs (CT/Inny/VS/Trak) go in a rotation between the tiers of first pop being Tier 1, second being Tier 2, and third being a FFA competition between Tier 1 and Tier 2. All sub-epic mobs are in rotation between Tier 1 and Tier 2.

This splits the mobs, weighted in favor of Tier 1 so they would get approximately 2-3 mobs a day (I believe it totalled to around 70-75 a month) to compete over with themselves. Meanwhile, this would give the Tier 2 guilds approximately 1-1.5 a day, which can be rotated amongst guilds to give 10 guilds 1 raid mob per week, if Tier 2 decided to go that way. Further, it allows for Tier 1 to have not just a 50/50 split of epic mobs, but an assured 1/3, and the ability to fight over another 1/3, which would come down to 2/3 in 3 weeks per epic mob.

And the true beauty of this is that the mobs never come into interacting with each other. So if you want to be causal, more friendly raiding, then you can be tier 2, you can earn your epic, and you can have a good time. If you want to compete so you get more mobs (about 4x more) with access to the top raiding tier (VP), then you can do that too.

Since the tier 1 raiders are raiding their half of the server, all month long, and the tier 2 raiders are raiding their casual stuff all month long, neither one will interact on the same mob, other than the FFA Epic mobs, and that's only if a casual guild decides they want to stretch their legs and "try out" competition, as maybe a guild (in the future) has only ever played in a rotation, and would like to see what competitive raiding is like to join it.

Casuals can be casual, hardcores can be hardcore. If you play hardcore, you must accept FFA, and that style of play, if you are casual, you must abide by whatever council mechanism that tier 2 institutes. It lets each side decide their own fate, without interacting or negatively impacting the other.

Do this, and many of the issues we see will disappear. People will raid with other like minded people against other like minded people.

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Pre-emptive responses:

"BDA just wants to dominate tier 2!"

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"That's not fair!"

First off, define it to yourself, and then realize what fairness is is an elusive concept. One of the greatest political philosophers of the 20th century, a man named John Rawls, best explained fairness (approximately) as the state in which decisions and bargaining are made without knowing one's biases or bargaining positions. This system allots a heavy value of raid mobs to the hardcores to compete over, and it gives another, smaller cut to the casuals. Consider whether the problem with this plan is actually lack of competition or fairness (already allotted a large amount, and the tier 1 can compete among themselves for that great share), or if it is that some people truly derive their pleasure from other people's failures, and this system would prevent that.

"That's not classic!"

Nor is much of this server. But, this server aspires to classic to as much of a degree as it can. What everyone should have in common is a desire to experience their glory days of classic EverQuest. Classic is not defined entirely by competition, as many came from servers that had rotations. This allows two completely different styles of classic to exist simultaneously on the server, so that everyone, not just those from competitive servers, can enjoy returning to their classic experience, and can do it without hurting other players' classic experience. Unless you want to go to VP. Then you have to play a very specific type of classic.