Weighted Point Value System - Serverwide Raid Idea Thread

[Autotune]

Also, we aren't supposed to come up with plans to guarantee every guild gets their epics. The system is only supposed to stop a guild or two from having a monopoly on raid targets.

[Brut]

Originally Posted by Ecguy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A potential outcome of this, and not necessarily due to nefarious reasons, is that large guilds see a lot of members exit. They may form a new smaller guild or they may join an existing smaller guild..

Good. 100+ player active rosters is not classic.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

more vp keys for FE/IB/BDA hurts no one but TMO and opens up more of the raid scene outside of VP by putting more of a raid scene inside of VP.

The guilds that aren't able to compete in VP will have little problem with more guilds moving into VP, considering even if they had trak to themselves it would take a single guild months to key into VP now.

I think me and you are close in the ball park of what we are trying to say actually. But what we both need to realize is no matter what system you implement unless it is a rotation on every single mob VP is going to remain keyed up by only the 3 entities listed. So the next concern goes to people having chances at engages on boss mobs and finishing their epics. This system will only reward the guilds sporadically with no real guarantee they will get a shot at the epic pieces they need. That is my sole thought process.

You need a Tier for it and while a point system is good in theory it will simply still give the mobs to the people who track the most past TMO/FE/IB/BDA. It won't distribute the wealth to the entire server. Taken will likely be the biggest benefactor of this system.

Then you have the same 4 guilds who were getting kills before getting kills again...Just spread out more evenly across those 4 guilds. I think most people want a change to the server that gives all guilds a shot to progress with work.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think me and you are close in the ball park of what we are trying to say actually. But what we both need to realize is no matter what system you implement unless it is a rotation on every single mob VP is going to remain keyed up by only the 3 entities listed. So the next concern goes to people having chances at engages on boss mobs and finishing their epics. This system will only reward the guilds sporadically with no real guarantee they will get a shot at the epic pieces they need. That is my sole thought process.

You need a Tier for it and while a point system is good in theory it will simply still give the mobs to the people who track the most past TMO/FE/IB/BDA. It won't distribute the wealth to the entire server. Taken will likely be the biggest benefactor of this system.

Then you have the same 4 guilds who were getting kills before getting kills again...Just spread out more evenly across those 4 guilds. I think most people want a change to the server that gives all guilds a shot to progress with work.

The difference is giving guilds opportunity and giving guilds raid targets. People have already started talking about not wanting hand outs, but wanting the time sink that is raiding due to variance adjusted to be more classic along with these new raiding rules/system (whichever system gets implemented).

In the end, if the huge casual slap in the face that is variance isn't adjusted heavily to be more in line with classic, nothing sort of giving guilds raid targets will help. It's already been stated several hundred times that it's a casual cockblock and only supports huge roster raid guilds in monopolizing the raid content.

[Yinikren]

Kills spread across 4 guilds or kills spread across 1 guild... Take your pick. I don't expect anyone to be HAPPY with the decision, because any system we come up with will have to limit mobs in one way or another. Any sort of rotation that hands mobs to guilds is a no go. My system fosters competition - guilds that put in the work are getting mobs. It may not be the mobs they want, but its a lot better than the monopoly we had the last two years.

It is simply not possible to cut guilds to the point where everyone on the server gets mob attempts. Guilds still have to work for their mobs. They just can't take the majority with this system. They have to choose what mobs to pursue each week.

[Tasslehofp99]

I'm half asleep right now so forgive me if you already addressed this.

What happens when one guild only wants to kill the same 3 targets every week?

Lets day guild A is only interested in trak, vs, and sev. Guild B wants sev too, would it just come down to which guild uses more points?

I don't see how setting point values would work unless its a bidding type system where each week guilds bid whatever they want for the raid targets they desire.

So lets say guild A bids 125 points on VS every week because theyre mainly concerned with wizard epics. Any guild can outbid them if its worth it to them, and points should roll over each week. So guild a starts with 200 and spends 125 on VS. They are left with 75 points to either save or bid on other targets. Each guild gets a weekly allowance of points to either spend or save as they desire. The way I've described it actually seems quite feasible, I would go more into depth but I'm too sleepy.


This way any guild can bid what they feel is fair on raid targets they need, and there really isn't a way to completely monopolize everything. The guild bidding high on VS one week likely won't have enough points to win the bid the following week. This also allows guilds to somewhat "plan" their targets and organize their forces to be able to kill it.


Could also add stipulations; for instance rules against bidding on the same mob every week. Or if you bid on a mob and wipe the next highest bidder gets a shot and you lose half of your points.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The difference is giving guilds opportunity and giving guilds raid targets. People have already started talking about not wanting hand outs, but wanting the time sink that is raiding due to variance adjusted to be more classic along with these new raiding rules/system (whichever system gets implemented).

In the end, if the huge casual slap in the face that is variance isn't adjusted heavily to be more in line with classic, nothing sort of giving guilds raid targets will help. It's already been stated several hundred times that it's a casual cockblock and only supports huge roster raid guilds in monopolizing the raid content.

Can't argue there. It should be reduced. Not quite sold on it being entirely eliminated. We definitely don't want zones crashing from people sitting on spawn points. I think that a Variance adjustment will have to happen. It would mess up some raids in Velious.

[Yinikren]

Isn't a bidding system, tasslehoff. Guilds will still have to track and engage the mob like normal. FTE and all that jazz. The guild that kills the mob spends however many points it costs do so. The point cost for the mob is the limiting factor - a guild can only spend so many points a week. If they want to clear VP, they clear VP. If they want Trak and a few loot mobs, they do that. If they want an epic mob, they do that. The idea is to stop guilds from doing all 3 while everyone else gets left with nada.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Yinikren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Isn't a bidding system, tasslehoff. Guilds will still have to track and engage the mob like normal. FTE and all that jazz. The guild that kills the mob spends however many points it costs do so.

Aye but the way I described lends more competition.

You have guilds bid points on raid mobs, winning bid gets first shot. If a guild bids high their point total goes way down, allowing other guilds to have their turn next.

This way also offers a bit of room for stratedgy, with guilds having to spend their points wisely to maximize the benefit to their guild. Guilds will atill HAVE to track the mob they bid on, because the 2nd highest bidder would get the mob should the first bidding guild wipe or fail to track.


A wipe/failure to track could then result in a loss of half (or more) of their bid, further fostering competition. This way, guilds can buy their shots at mobs while still having to put forth the effort to kill it in a timely manner. Can also add a time limit stipulation; for instance the winning bidder has 1 hour to engage after a pop or they lose their shot, and half the points they bid.

[Yinikren]

True, but the mobs simply aren't up long enough for a bid to take place, though it is an interesting idea I admit. Something like VS, for instance, lasts like 37 seconds after a pop. It would be much easier to track the kill if guilds went after him normally and whoever got the kill had the points deducted. Plus, with my weighted system, its possible there will be less competition for VS then normal, because other epic mobs are the same cost as him and other guilds may have already hit their point limit earlier in the week, or are waiting for a Trak pop, or any other reason.