No problem with you bards until tonight, what you guys should understand.

[Nirgon]

Sounds like a great bug to fix, low hp aggro should be a snap gain and not for nearly as much threat. You can completely kill mobs (95% of really high hp ones and presuming no resists) without them ever fighting back.

[Weekapaug]

I've played on the server for 3.5 years, also, and I've never seen this bard situation like it is now. Personally, I've never had any problems with them because I don't tend to play in the particular zones that they tend to kite in. And, for the record, the bard is one of my favorite classes and I love to kite...I just don't do it here because I got into other classes shortly after I rolled my bard (my first toon) and never really played it. Bards are fun to solo, they are fun to group with, and they are fun to have in groups, if they are good. Many aren't, but that's a whole other conversation.

But there is most definately a problem of late because of the sheer number of people doing it now (and the sheer number of people affected) and the sheer number of people trying to do it and failing, which is probably where most of the problems lie...Sooner or later it's going to have to be addressed. Just ignoring it because of what the posted rules say, that are 4 years old, by the way, when the topic comes up multiple times daily, is talked about constantly in-game, and has created a general disdain for an entire class as a whole, while the GMs are commenting more and more on it, is just a little naive, dontcha think?

This is going to end badly for some people and I highly doubt it's the ones you are telling to "cry harder."

[kenzar]

Originally Posted by Weekapaug [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've played on the server for 3.5 years, also, and I've never seen this bard situation like it is now. Personally, I've never had any problems with them because I don't tend to play in the particular zones that they tend to kite in. And, for the record, the bard is one of my favorite classes and I love to kite...I just don't do it here because I got into other classes shortly after I rolled my bard (my first toon) and never really played it. Bards are fun to solo, they are fun to group with, and they are fun to have in groups, if they are good. Many aren't, but that's a whole other conversation.

But there is most definately a problem of late because of the sheer number of people doing it now (and the sheer number of people affected) and the sheer number of people trying to do it and failing, which is probably where most of the problems lie...Sooner or later it's going to have to be addressed. Just ignoring it because of what the posted rules say, that are 4 years old, by the way, when the topic comes up multiple times daily, is talked about constantly in-game, and has created a general disdain for an entire class as a whole, while the GMs are commenting more and more on it, is just a little naive, dontcha think?

This is going to end badly for some people and I highly doubt it's the ones you are telling to "cry harder."

I don't know what gives you the impression that anything has changed or will change, this same argument gets rehashed every few weeks for YEARS. People have always complained about bards swarm kiting; they always will and nothing has ever been done about it; what in the world makes you think this is any different? Swarm kiting is within the ruleset for outdoor zones, period.

[Stinkum]

The problem isn't Bards.

The problem is the ridiculous efficiency of Bard power leveling for the mid-level range, as well as the high demand for such AE kiting services.

At a going rate of 2-3k per hour and endless supply of customers, it is probably the fastest and easiest way to make money in the game. That itself is a recipe for the more unsavory types of players to try to dip their beaks on that sweet AE kiting money. Unsavory types who really don't care that they train, steal mobs, monopolize content, and are general assholes to everyone in the process.

Back when I was XPing in OT, Capi was there 4-5 hours a night at primetime consistently keep pulling every last cactus, rhino, tiger, and cockatrice from Skyfire ramp, as well as the entire zone. I remember the group I was in politely asked if he could leave some up for us, since we were there before he even got here, and he didn't give a shit.

Your average Bard player is great, but beware of the power leveling douche bags.

[Weekapaug]

Originally Posted by kenzar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know what gives you the impression that anything has changed or will change, this same argument gets rehashed every few weeks for YEARS. People have always complained about bards swarm kiting; they always will and nothing has ever been done about it; what in the world makes you think this is any different? Swarm kiting is within the ruleset for outdoor zones, period.

Not years. Not like this. People always complain about everything. But this, now, is different. Not every few weeks. Multiple times, daily. Here and in-game.

And you can keep jumping up and down citing "rules" but there has been more attention drawn to this now more than ever. No one ever said swarm kiting was against the rules. What I and most others here have been talking about is monopolization of entire zones. It's a different thing entirely. And it's happening constantly.

But you go on your merry way and I'll try not to laugh when the hammer comes down.

[kenzar]

Originally Posted by Weekapaug [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not years. Not like this. People always complain about everything. But this, now, is different.

And you can keep jumping up and down citing "rules" but there has been more attention drawn to this now more than ever. No one ever said swarm kiting was against the rules. What I and most others here have been talking about is monopolization of entire zones. It's a different thing entirely. And it's happening constantly.

But you go on your merry way and I'll try not to laugh when the hammer comes down.

Claims require evidence. Saying "its different" doesn't mean shit lol. Show us how this is any different than the 50 other bard kiting QQ threads posted over the last 4 years, all about the monopolization of zones and training. Quit with the hyperbole and anecdotes they dont mean anything to anyone with a brain.

Oh no, I'm sorry I've cited the rules of the server. Geez its like I wanted to provide some sort of evidence for my claims...weird.

Finally, if you think anyone will eat a ban or even a suspension(hell even a warning) for this you're dumber than I gave you credit for.

[Champion_Standing]

You are kidding yourself if you think nobody has ever been suspended over training outside of a raid. I've been part of a group and watched a GM come boot someone who was repeatedly training us in Mistmoore, I don't believe it was intentional, but it ended up disrupting other players and getting people killed. Didn't see the person online for at least a week after said incident.

When people go through the proper channels such as creating a petition thread and provide proof, there will be action taken. You just have to realize that you don't see these threads, people going through the proper channels don't create a spectacle for the entire server to see on the forums.

[Weekapaug]

Originally Posted by kenzar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Claims require evidence. Saying "its different" doesn't mean shit lol. Show us how this is any different than the 50 other bard kiting QQ threads posted over the last 4 years, all about the monopolization of zones and training. Quit with the hyperbole and anecdotes they dont mean anything to anyone with a brain.

Oh no, I'm sorry I've cited the rules of the server. Geez its like I wanted to provide some sort of evidence for my claims...weird.

Finally, if you think anyone will eat a ban or even a suspension(hell even a warning) for this you're dumber than I gave you credit for.

So, earlier in this thread you said because you, personally, have never seen anyone get banned or suspended for training, it doesn't happen. Now, you say anecdotal discussion is meaningless. Which is it, Mr. Consistent?

You have cited rules that don't apply to this situation and are skipping over others that do. Other people have pointed this out to you but you just can't seem to grasp that what you have quoted has nothing to do with zone disruption issues, which is what monopolization of zones, particularly crowded ones, is.

I'm simply saying that in my time on P99, I've never seen the bard aoe situation like this and, particularly, the general attitude of the server towards them quite like this. And I, personally, have a sneaking suspicion that there is going to be a rude awakening for idiots like yourself who are content to continue doing what they have been doing because they play a certain class they have free reign to do whatever they want. You could sell accounts for years here, too....Until a couple of months ago when you couldn't.

You might see it differently and that's fine, but your jumping up and down like a poop flinging monkey doesn't change my opinion, nor will it keep me from discussing it. If that's a problem for you, I guess that's your fucking problem. BTW, you know the easiest way to tell if someone in a discussion is retarded? By the number of times they use any variation of the word "crying" or "QQ."

[Lyra]

Sometimes I wonder if you are all on a different server. The game is HUGE. Do you go looking for bards? I'm leveling a character in East Karana right now. I haven't seen another player in days.

As I've said several times, I leveled from 30 to 50 exclusively in OT on my druid (within the last 4 months). Bards were there pulling constantly. Some how I managed quite well. It's been said a bunch of times, but if a bard is annoying you ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SEND A POLITE TELL AND BE WILLING TO NEGOTIATE.

I think there is something else going on. Maybe it has something to do with level 30. Since it's rare new players stick around past level 30, maybe the reality of the time commitment sets in and the player becomes agitated about the time they hit OT and have to cohabitate with bards. That certainly would fit with the time line of the last big boom to hit the server and all of these bard posts. This is why I wanted the player data base someone was working on to show specific character information. My theory could be analyzed.

I leveled my cleric in Droga from 30 - 40. I formed the groups. Sure it was annoying when we just got to camp and someone bailed, but eventually I made friends with reliable, solid players who enjoy dungeons. We moved to City of Mist after.

[Buma]

Originally Posted by Lyra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sometimes I wonder if you are all on a different server. The game is HUGE. Do you go looking for bards? I'm leveling a character in East Karana right now. I haven't seen another player in days.

As I've said several times, I leveled from 30 to 50 exclusively in OT on my druid (within the last 4 months). Bards were there pulling constantly. Some how I managed quite well. It's been said a bunch of times, but if a bard is annoying you ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SEND A POLITE TELL AND BE WILLING TO NEGOTIATE.

I think there is something else going on. Maybe it has something to do with level 30. Since it's rare new players stick around past level 30, maybe the reality of the time commitment sets in and the player becomes agitated about the time they hit OT and have to cohabitate with bards. That certainly would fit with the time line of the last big boom to hit the server and all of these bard posts. This is why I wanted the player data base someone was working on to show specific character information. My theory could be analyzed.

I leveled my cleric in Droga from 30 - 40. I formed the groups. Sure it was annoying when we just got to camp and someone bailed, but eventually I made friends with reliable, solid players who enjoy dungeons. We moved to City of Mist after.

It can happen that you find players who are on your time schedule and start getting a core going, but it is rare. As I said I'm not to get bards nerfed or am I concerned for their mass low hp kiting, however; what I am concerned for as mentioned in my thread here is that it is out of control for how some bards are treating the area in OT. The disrespect they give fellow players who are trying to level near the areas that bards shouldn't be pulling from is my motivation for this thread.

If it gets everyone's panties in an uproar then they either haven't comprehended the thread well or they just don't care. But I agree with you on the level 30 plateau that most players run into. Classic EQ was a very time consuming hard game. It was super social, and this is a subject for another thread but players now seem to get annoyed like you said, and it seems many rather solo.