Classic mechanic discussion: fast weapon/white damage aggro

[Borador]

Originally Posted by Vayder [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's true on live many warriors would dual wield lamentations, but...

1) How many pickup group rogues had epic?
2) How many pickup group monks had epic/SoS or T-staff?
3) How many pickup group melee had better than FBSS haste?
4) If swing speed was what mattered, why did warriors use dual Lamentation rather than dual Jade Mace?

The reality is that Lamentation drops frequently, had stats that were overvalued, a graphic people really liked, and the average pickup group required you to generate far less hate than you need to here.

The mechanics for hate are well known, readily available and are implemented on the server.

someone beat me to it, but lammys were common and people overvalued the stats... Like you said, which is why duel jade maces weren't as common, although that's what I used. Literally 2 seconds headstart and I had zero aggro issues.

My rogue was epic'd pretty quickly as well and it was easy to see the difference when a tank had fast weapons, give them a few seconds and aggro was fine. The only thing proc weapons did was allow you to BS sooner if they got a lucky proc early.

[crkhobbit]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean I posted on the first page the precise mathematics that give exactly the behavior that Nirgon wants and are in fact implemented and instead he is going off on one of his unfounded crusades.

Mosscovered twig: 5+11 = 16/10 = 1.6 ratio. That's way better than the epic (1.05 ratio).

This makes perfect sense to me.

I remember faster weapons being better aggro from live as well. I don't think we understood why back then, but we knew that dual wielding fast weapons worked the best.

As for using a faster weapon over a proc weapon, my guess would be consistency. Especially in an XP group. Procs aren't guaranteed.

[Zeelot]

Check out my old bug report regarding this, unfortunately nothing has been changed, maybe got lost in the shuffle. Pretty sure this is how it's supposed to be - http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=39361

[Colgate]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Few people on the pvp server said quite the opposite. That they are being hit harder than a possible max hit while sitting.

Anyone have more info on this?

someone coded it for pvp to have an extra percentage modifier or flat damage bonus added to sitting targets and always hitting for max damage

that's why we hear about people popping duelist and backstabbing a sitting player for double 1200s with a ragebringer

here's an example where i'm level 59 using a tstaff(29/30) and pop innerflame and one round a 54 magician who's sitting

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

innerflame is a 100% damage increase, and i'm absolutely certain that a max hit for a tstaff even at 60 is lower than 170(i believe in the gear i was using it should be somewhere in the 130s or up to 140) and flying kick was somewhere around 130 as well

here we see flying kick doing 324 damage and each melee round doing 341 damage

[Heebo]

Max damage sitting vs a PC works fine on blue but definitely broken vs NPCs.

[big mouth chew]

this thread gettin a lil off track but i still like it

while we're talking about anything unclassic lets talk about UIs plz

[Enygma]

It makes sense what Vayder and Koros have chimed in here regarding Lammies. I forget the expansion was only out for 9 or so months before Velious was released and warriors were almost immediately upgrading to clubs of ice ocean and frostbringer etc.

[koros]

Originally Posted by Borador [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and there is no offhand damage bonus, the hate generation was extremely high in the OFFhand with faster weapons not just the main (aka its not just damage done). What you are posting is why twig did so much damage (and obviously hate generation) as a main hand abusing the DMG bonus..

No he was right, that's in regards to hate generation. It actually didn't do that much damage in mainhand (Just slightly more than an epic or jade mace)

[cs616]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What could explain this? Were we all just that bad at the game?

I think this is the most likely scenario. It isn't just warriors on this server having problems with aggro that is different, but the general level of gear/knowledge/skill of the DPS in their group as well. I too remember warriors dual wielding lammys, but those warriors were also probably 15 year old kids who were studying for their algebra exam the next day while playing, I know I was. I think we all like to look back at live and think we knew everything because a few of us were in successful guilds, but even being in a top end raiding guild myself I can look back and realize how little I understood in terms of game mechanics. Even now a lot of people on this server who are in the top guilds like FE and TMO really are clueless beyond what they think the role of their particular class is.

One of my characters on this server is currently a 58 warrior who was created back in 2010. I've tanked just about every encounter outside of VP and grouped in just about every zone while playing him. People having problems with aggro either have bad players pulling aggro off them, or are bad players themselves and don't know how to use taunt, which despite popular belief does work pretty well on this server. It really is as simple as that.

Could there be slight differences in how this server and live calculate aggro? Absolutely. Is it a broken mechanic that is in need of immediate attention, or even really affects play on this server? No.

Edit - just to clarify, I realize taunt doesn't work on raid mobs. When talking about taunt I was speaking to exp groups. For raids, obviously generating aggro through other means is the way to go.

[Nirgon]

This has all the Nilbog benefits of a bug thread, with all the discussion benefits of not yelling at me for posting and debating in bugs.

It even has a PvP kill shot.

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