Duration of Shared Grp XP Penalties

[odizzido]

I just enjoy playing the game. A 6.7% drop in xp isn't something I even think about when inviting people to join groups. Having to kill 20 mobs instead of 19 for the same xp because there is a pally in my group makes no difference at all to me.

[Nagash]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was responding directly to the claim that we pick and choose what negatively effects players. How are those not valid examples of negatively affecting players? Did I say anything about exp penalties? I was purely stating that the patch notes you guys receive will NOT be full of player perks, but the opposite, nerfs, since that is the majority of difference between classic and non-classic.

edit 2nd paragraph: I re-read your post with context, and understand it now. The feedback on this particular issue isn't what I was commenting on here, but I am keeping up to date with how people feel.

I've tried to read through this all and now my eyes bleed and I want to drill a shave with a chainsaw.

Anyway, Nilbog, I think the idea that was tried to be said is that you are trying hard to create a replica of Classic (and do a bloody good job at it) but sometime some people have the impression that you are randomly selective in what you decide to implement or not. I'll take a different example which I hope will clarify this. In Classic, Rune of Sword was proccing vs anything, not just it's intended target. This was corrected much later (I might be wrong but I believe it was post PoSky) and acknowledged as a bug. You (as in the Dev team) have decided not to implement it because it was a bug.
Back to the subject, it has been admitted that the class penalties were a bug (I would have called that a cover up for a fuck up but that's just me) and canceled in Velious. This is a game altering "bug" for quite a few people hence the request to have something done about it but nothing is being done. Naturally you will have some people thinking "WTF, they remove the cool stuff and put back in the shitty one", can't escape that ^_^

If you don't want to remove them altogether because they were classic, fair enough, but it doesn't mean you can't tweak them so they're here but don't hurt everyone. Here's my thought. Let's take a group of 6 people (10% xp full group bonus) of the same level (to avoid unnecessary noise) including one hybrid (40% xp penalty). This group kills a mob worth 60xp.

At the moment, the xp received by everyone will be: (60+10%-40%)/6=(60+6-24)/6=7.
What if the race/class penalties were not applied to the group but to the hybrid only? The xp gained would be 60/6+10%=11 for everyone but for the hybrid who would earn 60/6+10%-40%=7

Now to be honest, a few things to be noted about this:
- I don't know if the formulaes (or the ideas behind these formulaes) are accurate, especially the "actual" one. I'm just trying to bring back the debate to what is was and stop the flame war that has started (as in any message that goes beyond 20-30 posts).
- I personnaly don't give a rat's behind to race/class penalties when grouping although I understand the frustration of some
- In a way I kinda like the idea of xp penalty for hybrid as they have it much easier than warriors: (more) easy to solo and/or ease to generate aggro (this last point vanishes with Kunark IIRC and it's at that point that they should logically go, but I know Classic and logic don't necessarily go together)
- As they have an easier way to hold aggro, making their group's life easier, I do believe the class penalty should be shared although I don't believe the race penalty should (why would you get a bonus to xp because you group with a halfling? A compensation of the bugger stealing your pie maybe? Or a malus because you group with a troll?)
- It is very possible that I talk out of my ass, that a lot of the stuff I say is very inaccurate and that some people want to flame me for it. Go ahead my ass is fireproof.

Kind regards,

Nagash
You've been hit by a wall of text for 1000000 damage
LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...

[Arclanz]

TBH, I think the group is suffering; not the hybrids/races. That's the funny part.

I joined with a lvl 10 Troll Shaman and the rest of the grp was lvls 7 and 8. Honestly, the xp seemed a HELL of a lot slower than the 6% quoted. Back in 99 they didn't have that neat blue-bar so you couldn't analyze xp gain as closely. Today we can see every tick of xp or in this case lack thereof.

Yes I'll group with hybrids and yes I get discouraged every time I check the xp bar.

[JxP]

I joined about 3 weeks ago as well. I started with a mage and he got nerfed, then I started playing in groups as an enchanter and then xp gets nerfed. I looked into soloing with the chanter, but apparently charm is broken and only works if you are super twinked.

I would play a necro, but I had a max level one on live and don't feel like "beating" EQ again with that class. A few minutes ago I gave all my gear to that picklefixer guy that was looking for some help on the forum (the one you guys flamed) and deleted all my nerfed/broken characters :P.

In case you were wondeirng I didn't just quit over the nerfs, I already played quite a bit of classic EQ and the nerfs kind of just sealed the deal on me quitting.

Later.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Originally Posted by Nagash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's take a group of 6 people (10% xp full group bonus) of the same level (to avoid unnecessary noise) including one hybrid (40% xp penalty). This group kills a mob worth 60xp.

At the moment, the xp received by everyone will be: (60+10%-40%)/6=(60+6-24)/6=7.
What if the race/class penalties were not applied to the group but to the hybrid only? The xp gained would be 60/6+10%=11 for everyone but for the hybrid who would earn 60/6+10%-40%=7

Not flaming... but just no... not at all.

I have explained the numbers already in like 3 or 4 threads on this subject. Search for my posts if you want to see the math.

Bottom line: Hybrids cause a group to take on average between 8-15% longer to level. Bad players can slow down a group much more than that.

Originally Posted by Oogmog

Right now if you group with a level 45, their "hell" level penalty is shared with the group and that level 45 gains experience at the same rate as the level 44 and level 46 in the same group. This was put in by Bumagager(Sorry, I know that's not the correct spelling) because it was his belief that is how it was in classic and I think most people can verify that isn't the case.

Not true. There is no "hell level penalty" that is distributed to the group. Hell levels take a lot more xp to get through than the levels before them and even take more xp to get through than the level after them. However, Hell levels do not affect the xp per kill received in a group in any way different to the normal split that happens at any other level. That split does not use a players level as a factor anywhere in the equation. It is based on the ratio of each players total xp to the total xp of the whole group.

[Bumamgar]

Originally Posted by Dumesh Uhl'Belk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not true. There is no "hell level penalty" that is distributed to the group. Hell levels take a lot more xp to get through than the levels before them and even take more xp to get through than the level after them. However, Hell levels do not affect the xp per kill received in a group in any way different to the normal split that happens at any other level. That split does not use a players level as a factor anywhere in the equation. It is based on the ratio of each players total xp to the total xp of the whole group.

This is true now, it wasn't before the patch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[soup]

Originally Posted by Dumesh Uhl'Belk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not flaming... but just no... not at all.

I have explained the numbers already in like 3 or 4 threads on this subject. Search for my posts if you want to see the math.

Bottom line: Hybrids cause a group to take on average between 8-15% longer to level. Bad players can slow down a group much more than that.


Not true. There is no "hell level penalty" that is distributed to the group. Hell levels take a lot more xp to get through than the levels before them and even take more xp to get through than the level after them. However, Hell levels do not affect the xp per kill received in a group in any way different to the normal split that happens at any other level. That split does not use a players level as a factor anywhere in the equation. It is based on the ratio of each players total xp to the total xp of the whole group.

I've seen you say this before several times. Honestly, you should link to one of your explanations instead of telling people to go search through all your posts trying to find the explanation.

[Dantes]

Have all you folks shelving your hybrids actually done any tests and compared those to how exp used to be? Or are we all just blowing smoke here and being over dramatic?

[liveitup1216]

this is how classic was, painfully slow leveling every step of the way, improved gear/mob design over kunark/velious made it not AS bad, but it still wasn't a cakewalk by far.

[Tseng]

Originally Posted by Dantes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Have all you folks shelving your hybrids actually done any tests and compared those to how exp used to be? Or are we all just blowing smoke here and being over dramatic?

The problem in their eyes isn't their own XP, it's that they feel shunned by others who know they'll be a dent to their own XP. I'm not sure that's been the case in my experience, I just walked my SK into Unrest typed /shout 19 SK LFG and got a group in 10 seconds, so who knows.