Anyone tried EQLive with its 50 expansions?

[Gadwen]

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can only hope for EQ next. D3 showed how bad you can fail.

They just need to make it like EQ classic with graphics upgrade and very similar zones... some new ones. If they want a large player base include a few new type mechanics but keep it minimal so the old school players don't feel like wtf easy button.

The sad truth is that old school MMOers are far far outnumbered by people who have never experienced anything but easy MMOs, we just have to accept that we will never be the target demographic of another big budget game.

[AdamM01]

Originally Posted by Gadwen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The sad truth is that old school MMOers are far far outnumbered by people who have never experienced anything but easy MMOs, we just have to accept that we will never be the target demographic of another big budget game.

Very sad but true. There is a reason P99 had to be created independently. No major developer really cares enough to bring challenge back to a game, what would that create for them? Certainly not a huge profit (which is what they want), all they would get is complainers that the game is too hard and that their subscribers don't have the time to sit down and grind out levels and gear. People would quit because they want things easy and they want to be able to show off their fancy looking gear, not actually put in the major game time to get it.

Most are more concerned with graphical content and user friendliness nowadays (why do you think the iPhone is so popular?). It doesn't matter that the content of the game is shitty or that the game is easy, just as long as they can achieve the highest level and cool gear. Sucks, but that's just how it is.

[Sarius]

The bazaar also killed live for me, hanging out in the tunnel and selling shit was half of the fun of the game.

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by Sarius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The bazaar also killed live for me, hanging out in the tunnel and selling shit was half of the fun of the game.

Agreed. I worked on an MMO with a guy (who was lead designer) who was so intimidated by the genre that while "trying" WoW, he freaked out because someone was following him. He literally freaked out. It was an NPC from a guard quest he had just picked up. I tried to show him EQ and he pretty much threatened to sack me for even looking at it (not that he had the power) because it was everything he hated about games. The company's GM hated MMOs, and thought he could rescue the genre for the "normal" people. You can guess how that all worked out. That guy was a good designer by the way, he just shouldn't have been anywhere near an MMO.

This is what is happening - MMOs are being designed to the lowest common denominator by people who like the idea of them (abstractly), but have no clue, and money people who dream of the billion dollar gravy train. I'm not saying that was the reason for the bazaar being implemented, but it was the thin edge of a really nasty wedge. They probably didn't realize that at the time though. Things can look good on paper and end up being bad once implemented.

All that to say, it's *totally* possible to make a game on the same level as EQ and for it to be successful - CCP have proved that. You just can't make it for any other reason except you want to play it, and you want it to be great, and you understand that you won't be mass market and don't care. I was at E3 in 2003 and tried to interview the guys from CCP for a website at the time. There was a bit of a buzz about them. But I couldn't get even 5 minutes. They weren't interested in the media. They didn't care what people thought, or to jump through any hoops. They were certain of their own direction and screw the rest of the industry and the way it did things. I remember thinking they were either going to be spectacular failures, or maverick successes. And they succeeded, because they loved what they were making.

I wouldn't be surprised if another EQ is being made right now actually, but by an independent. If not, I know one is being designed and pitched [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[fadetree]

One suggestion, should anyone be listening who might have any creative input on a game being pitched...

Keep the mechanics a mystery for the most part. Don't put numbers all over everything. Don't clearly label stuff with exact game effects. Don't give everything categories and colors and statistics and countdown timers.

Oh, and kill people hard when they mess up.

[webrunner5]

Yeah, but most of you "knocking" EQ live is that the game has been going 14 years. So you want Sony to do nothing for 14 years. Hell people on here are bored shitless now. Ok Velious will come out, then what? A year from now everybody will be bored shitless again. And guess what that is the end. People are crazy as hell. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hell people on here are bored shitless now.

No.

There's nothing out now.

And after something does come out, and we get tired of it, we come back here.

We fly. No lie. You know this.

[big league chew]

BALLIN

no i played last night tho live still sux

[Gadwen]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, but most of you "knocking" EQ live is that the game has been going 14 years. So you want Sony to do nothing for 14 years. Hell people on here are bored shitless now. Ok Velious will come out, then what? A year from now everybody will be bored shitless again. And guess what that is the end. People are crazy as hell. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think anyone expects an MMO dev to do nothing for 14 years. But it's a completely different game now, do you really expect people who play on P99 to NOT knock Live? It's the exact opposite of what people here want from an MMO. You are on the wrong forums if you are seeing something you didn't expect.

[TarukShmaruk]

Originally Posted by Gadwen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think anyone expects an MMO dev to do nothing for 14 years. But it's a completely different game now, do you really expect people who play on P99 to NOT knock Live? It's the exact opposite of what people here want from an MMO. You are on the wrong forums if you are seeing something you didn't expect.

MMO's that have gone on that long always look like ass.

The engine gets stale and they tack on too many features as selling points for expansions and it becomes a giant clusterfuck.

EQ Live is a great example of this. UO is a great example of this.

There's something to be said for simplicity - in UI, in gear stats, in damage numbers, in abilities. One thing EQ did really well for its first several expansions was keep things simple - some more spells, some more disciplines (very much needed to keep melee from being so boring), and minor mudflation.

WoW is starting down the path of 'too much crap' - ever tried WoW PVP in the latest expansion? In the early days you knew what people were capable of because everyone had a set of abilities, now it's just shit going off everywhere with procs and instant casts and cooldown abilities and it's just blah.