Asking a favor from the two top guilds on the server

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Rhambuk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

only issue with vox and naggy is the lvl 52 cap, we dont all have geared alts to farm dragons. Not to say it isnt a good start but might be hard for some guilds simply because they dont have that many lvl 52 alts

it only takes like 2 groups of them with level 60 buffs

[Rhambuk]

bleh now i gotta level another char, forgot i sold my 52 with everything else =p

[Splorf22]

It would be cool to actual up-and-coming guilds kill nagafen rather than the 10th alts of players who have been on the server for two years (like me).

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by Rhambuk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

only issue with vox and naggy is the lvl 52 cap, we dont all have geared alts to farm dragons. Not to say it isnt a good start but might be hard for some guilds simply because they dont have that many lvl 52 alts

Yeah, most of my guild's raid force, including myself, do not have a character that is at the right level for Vox or Nagafen. Most of us are too high for Vox and Nagafen, and as a casual raiding guild, it isn't feasible for 80% of us to have characters leveled to 52 just for these mobs, especially when we probably wouldn't get them anyway (not including a rotation).

[uygi]

Originally Posted by pharmakos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the big guilds should let smaller guilds try every raid boss that pops for awhile (more than one week every three months), but then as soon as the smaller guild wipes the big guys are allowed to step in. =p lets be real, the big guys would still get 80%+ of the kills. and they'd get to laugh while the smaller guilds fail hard.

That's a much hairier idea than you probably realize. There are encounters right now, most notably Inny, CT and Trak, where one guild's wipe can often kill the other guild, at which point it turns into a real shit show. Then somebody messes up their CR (or maybe it's on purpose) and everybody gets trained again, etc. More guilds present, especially with less experience, lower levels and less encounter understanding would only make it worse. Then on top of that, FE and TMO (plus whoever else might theoretically be down to try) have the mess of trying to FTE versus eachother immediately as the smaller guild wipes. It would be a real mess. Now if TMO and FE were to /random to see who goes first instead of an all-out FTE lottery, that would solve this and some other problems (especially the problem of a guild with insufficient force getting a kill, which goes both ways).

Originally Posted by finalgrunt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If players want to compete with the top guild(s), they can just join them.
...
And asking top guilds to enter a rotation seems doomed to fail (at least with the current protagonists).

New guilds have come up to compete in the last couple years with varying success. When I joined in 2010, DA and IB were the established top dogs. Between long-term alliances, short-term cooperation and competing on their own, VD certainly managed to win things in its time. TMO began its attempt to raid seriously when Kunark came out, and was a challenger at the time to IB/TR and DA/Asc/Fusion. TMO ultimately merged with DA/Asc/Fusion. BDA did, for a brief while, manage to put up some competition for TMO. And once upon a time Divinity got god and dragon kills as well (or so I'm told). You have to be willing to try and willing to fail a bunch before you start winning on a competitive server.

Also, TMO, IB and VD at one time had a three-way raiding agreement which set Trak/VP rotations and established rules beyond the server rules, and later IB/TMO had a 2-guild agreement. It could happen again. The #1 thing that I think prevents rotation is people across any guilds involved getting all butthurt or uppity about crap.

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Being part of a guild means you can exclude people you'd prefer not to be guilded with.
...
So if we merged with 3 other guilds, we'd have to unconditionally...

No, you wouldn't. There would be terms set. Most likely, one guild would absorb another and exercise primary authority. That's how that kind of thing usually works.


Also, the smaller guilds can work together to apply pressure. Get some spawn windows figured out, and when Trak is late in window know what else is in window and go for it, because FE and TMO are going to be focused on Trak. Heck, let's insert some code that makes world dragons likely to spawn any time Trak is alive. That'll give small guilds a head start.

Also, I think Sirken completely understands what's going on on the server. It's people crowded in a bubble working within a fairly arbitrary but necessary rules framework according to a pattern that has developed over years. He's just being realistic. It isn't Sirken job to dictate how we can make the raid scene equitable; he just works on the GM side within the same framework as the players, dealing with the limitations and enforcing the rules of the server.

[pharmakos]

Originally Posted by uygi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's a much hairier idea than you probably realize. There are encounters right now, most notably Inny, CT and Trak, where one guild's wipe can often kill the other guild, at which point it turns into a real shit show. Then somebody messes up their CR (or maybe it's on purpose) and everybody gets trained again, etc. More guilds present, especially with less experience, lower levels and less encounter understanding would only make it worse.

oh well at least it'd be lulzy

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why dont all these smaller guilds just merge to form a competitive guild, as opposed to hoping a mob pops within your guilds peak play time. for example u said 5pm-1am you'd be good to go, but not outside those hours.

so maybe time to think outside the box? if FC, FV, Div, and Taken were to merge, you would easily be able to start competing on just about any mob.

people will argue that they shouldnt have to merge to compete. and i will simply disagree because its not true. every top guild goes through mergers on their way to the top.

doing things the way you want, and doing things the way things need to be done to compete, are not always the same path. and theres a very good chance at some point you have to decide which of those paths you are going to embark on, because most times its not possible to do both.

"you guys don't like that the end game on this server is just a FTE/batphone competition? well the obvious solution is to merge and form another FTE/batphone guild!"

srsly?

[Clark]

Originally Posted by uygi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's a much hairier idea than you probably realize. There are encounters right now, most notably Inny, CT and Trak, where one guild's wipe can often kill the other guild, at which point it turns into a real shit show. Then somebody messes up their CR (or maybe it's on purpose) and everybody gets trained again, etc. More guilds present, especially with less experience, lower levels and less encounter understanding would only make it worse. Then on top of that, FE and TMO (plus whoever else might theoretically be down to try) have the mess of trying to FTE versus eachother immediately as the smaller guild wipes. It would be a real mess. Now if TMO and FE were to /random to see who goes first instead of an all-out FTE lottery, that would solve this and some other problems (especially the problem of a guild with insufficient force getting a kill, which goes both ways).




New guilds have come up to compete in the last couple years with varying success. When I joined in 2010, DA and IB were the established top dogs. Between long-term alliances, short-term cooperation and competing on their own, VD certainly managed to win things in its time. TMO began its attempt to raid seriously when Kunark came out, and was a challenger at the time to IB/TR and DA/Asc/Fusion. TMO ultimately merged with DA/Asc/Fusion. BDA did, for a brief while, manage to put up some competition for TMO. And once upon a time Divinity got god and dragon kills as well (or so I'm told). You have to be willing to try and willing to fail a bunch before you start winning on a competitive server.

Also, TMO, IB and VD at one time had a three-way raiding agreement which set Trak/VP rotations and established rules beyond the server rules, and later IB/TMO had a 2-guild agreement. It could happen again. The #1 thing that I think prevents rotation is people across any guilds involved getting all butthurt or uppity about crap.



No, you wouldn't. There would be terms set. Most likely, one guild would absorb another and exercise primary authority. That's how that kind of thing usually works.


Also, the smaller guilds can work together to apply pressure. Get some spawn windows figured out, and when Trak is late in window know what else is in window and go for it, because FE and TMO are going to be focused on Trak. Heck, let's insert some code that makes world dragons likely to spawn any time Trak is alive. That'll give small guilds a head start.

Also, I think Sirken completely understands what's going on on the server. It's people crowded in a bubble working within a fairly arbitrary but necessary rules framework according to a pattern that has developed over years. He's just being realistic. It isn't Sirken job to dictate how we can make the raid scene equitable; he just works on the GM side within the same framework as the players, dealing with the limitations and enforcing the rules of the server.

+1

[Shinko]

something on lines of with X time of mob spawning guild cant leave up for longer then X/h or goes to next on list ect

Guild 1 | Guild 2 | Open to (guild 3-X) | FTE | FTE ~~~
Guild 1 | Guild 2 | Guild 3 | Open to (guild 4-X) | FTE | FTE ~~

something like this would be alright

G1/G2 | top 2 guilds

[Shinko]

Originally Posted by Shinko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

something on lines of with X time of mob spawning guild cant leave up for longer then X/h or goes to next on list ect

Guild 1 | Guild 2 | Open to (guild 3-X) | FTE | FTE ~~~
Guild 1 | Guild 2 | Guild 3 | Open to (guild 4-X) | FTE | FTE ~~

something like this would be alright

G1/G2 | top 2 guilds

[Danth]

These types of threads, and the raid scene on P1999 in general, consistently illustrate why newer online role-playing games tend to use substantial amounts of instancing. Monopolization of content doesn't happen in such environments and the only people who care are the unhappy few who judge their self-worth based on what other folks do or don't have. That's not a solution for P1999 of course; it's outside the scope of this server. Come to think of it, variance is also outside the stated scope of this server so I guess it's just as applicable.

The 'socking that happens here sort of benefits me in a roundabout way. I don't much care about raiding, so 100 people sitting on Sathir's spawn point is 100 people who aren't camping the stuff the wife and I want to do.

Danth