Shammy - Barb vs Troll

[Kender]

troll/iksar regen at 60 standing is +8 more than other races. +11 more when sitting

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Kender [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

troll/iksar regen at 60 standing is +8 more than other races. +11 more when sitting

thats only 4 less than a fungi - when sitting, which happens a lot, its definitely a convenience.

Race attributes really when it comes down to it, offer nothing more than a convenience. Frontal stun wont save you, but it is more continent to not get interrupts when spamming spells.

MR matters, but for the most part when your max level your MR is at a good place anyway. But it is nice to get higher.

I think the reality is, that there is no best shaman race, just best races for your play style. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If your play style is any of the below:

I want less waiting for regen! Troll
I want less waiting for regen + MR! ikky
I want to spam clickies in corners! Ogre
I want pretty white armor and faster leveling! Barb

[Byrjun]

I think the reality is, that there is no best shaman race, just best races for your play style.

There's definitely a "best race," if you're not interested in min/max then this discussion is not for you. Which is fine, whenever someone asks for racial advice the first thing I say is to play the race that you want to get to level 60 with. This is exactly why I play a Barbarian which I rank as the third worst race; I had an Ogre Shaman a few years ago that I abandoned at level 20.

But like I mentioned a couple posts ago, comparing sitting regen is pointless since you'll never be sitting as a 60 shaman without full health/mana unless you're memming a spell. If you want regen, play a Troll. If you want better stats and frontal stun immunity (which I rank as more important than regen), play an Ogre. If you don't give a shit, play what you want.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Byrjun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's definitely a "best race," if you're not interested in min/max then this discussion is not for you. Which is fine, whenever someone asks for racial advice the first thing I say is to play the race that you want to get to level 60 with. This is exactly why I play a Barbarian which I rank as the third worst race; I had an Ogre Shaman a few years ago that I abandoned at level 20.

But like I mentioned a couple posts ago, comparing sitting regen is pointless since you'll never be sitting as a 60 shaman without full health/mana unless you're memming a spell. If you want regen, play a Troll. If you want better stats and frontal stun immunity (which I rank as more important than regen), play an Ogre. If you don't give a shit, play what you want.

MR > all.

But the truth is that MR diff between a veloius ikky and another comparably geared sham will equal the difference of resisting like 1 more spell for every 20 cast on you by blues..

...In practice, that is a terrible terrible bonus.

The stun immunity saving you in solo will be like 1 out of 100 fights (a fight I might add that you weren't paying attention to really cus you were tired and watching your fave ep of star trek). That is a terrible, terrible bonus. (if it literally saves you, as in the reason you didn't die, a lot, then you are doing it wrong and should re-evaluate your strat)

So in my conclusion, there is no racial attribute that isn't anything more than a convenience.

There is no 1 "best" shaman race.

[Conky]

Iksar AC bonus is also worth mentioning, I think people under estimate iksar shamans as a race and regen at 60 also, when you can root rot 4+ mobs out heal most dots and still be able to canni it's a big plus.

[BlkCamel]

Regen is a great bonus and as mentioned always on. Comparing Troll regen vs Fungi though is worthless. Can use both and will be using both if you can. Regen races are the best healers/support, I have pointed this out in some of the other race debates. Frontal Stun Immunity(FSI) is for soloing or raid slowing.

Of course you can solo and raid slow without FSI, but if you are say soloing a summoning mob that regen is not going to outpace his dps. You will have to cast spells(slow,heal,dots, epic) and if you properly put your back to a wall you will be getting the benefit of FSI a-lot more then 1 out of 100. Epic dot is slow, really slow FSI reduces interrupts which allows you to progress to the next spell. All Shaman worth their salt have the next 5+ spells planned out and are just waiting for the previous spell to end to start their next action, we are always busy and have something to do 5 seconds ago. FSI allows us to stay out of a position to die more so then saves us when we were half a second away from purple healing. The point is to stay on top of the mob and your actions and not fall behind or lest you die.

I still would recommend Regen races to any Shaman that does not want to Face-tank the tough stuff in Kunark/Velious, or be the main slower on a raid. But for anyone that does want to do those things go OGRE. I did the above things as a Barb on live so you can do it with any race, but I really did regret not having that FSI, Regen as well but more so FSI.[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[iruinedyourday]

I would like to know what mob at level 60 you can kill with FSI that you cannot without.

The reason i say 1 out of 100 is because the one time a crucial spell gets broken because of stun, is like 1 out of 100 stuns that you get hit with as a non ogre shaman.
The rest is merely a convenience so you don't have to think about frontal stun timing.

Mobs don't chain stun, so all you have to do is think about it while your fighting them and you'll cast around the stun which comes about once every 45 sec to 1 min.

[BlkCamel]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would like to know what mob at level 60 you can kill with FSI that you cannot without.

The reason i say 1 out of 100 is because the one time a crucial spell gets broken because of stun, is like 1 out of 100 stuns that you get hit with as a non ogre shaman.
The rest is merely a convenience so you don't have to think about frontal stun timing.

Mobs don't chain stun, so all you have to do is think about it while your fighting them and you'll cast around the stun which comes about once every 45 sec to 1 min.

Like I said can do any mob with any race, I played Barb on Live. I am just saying what seems to you merely a convenience means A-LOT to me. Enough so that I would recommend it to others that want to be able to cast while being hit (ME!).

Troll for looks and regen is a close 2nd to me. I alt'd an Iksar Monk so I know what innate regen means, especially when combined with Fungi, so I don't hate and would think most Shaman would be better off having it. I have much respect for the strength of the Shaman class and readily admit you cannot go wrong with any race but that doesn't mean they are all equal for all play styles.[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by BlkCamel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like I said can do any mob with any race, I played Barb on Live. I am just saying what seems to you merely a convenience means A-LOT to me. Enough so that I would recommend it to others that want to be able to cast while being hit (ME!).

Troll for looks and regen is a close 2nd to me. I alt'd an Iksar Monk so I know what innate regen means, especially when combined with Fungi, so I don't hate and would think most Shaman would be better off having it. I have much respect for the strength of the Shaman class and readily admit you cannot go wrong with any race but that doesn't mean they are all equal for all play styles.[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea but you say it yourself - it doesn't allow you do something that you cant do without FSI. Which is what I think the most common misconception when people are rolling a shaman and reading these forums.

A lot of people think that an ogre shaman can do all this stuff that another shaman cant, which is just not true.

I suspect the only way you could determine which shaman was the best, would be to have a Casey Jones, who downs the named mobs faster competition. And then whoever wins gets the bragging rights 'downs namdes .2 seconds faster than all other shamans!' [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Weltmacht]

Pretty frightening that it's going to take an ogre to explain math to the peasant races, but wowzers the lesser races among us have really fallen behind.

Okay so you're trying to root a mob. Your spell is interrupted. You take another round of combat damage. P.S. it's going to be more than a tick of troll regen.

Multiply that by any number of additional mobs--breaking camps, double/triple+ spawns, etc. Why does this even need to be explained; how far gone is the rest of norrath?