AC/HP question (Ranger)

[Duik]

Just call it Warder Under Da Bridge.

[Solist]

Yeah there is a lot of people who haven’t parsed posting nonsense.

Go get on a 1350 displayed AC ranger and do 4 hours of seb in the same camp. Do the same on a 1000ac displayed ranger or just take a bunch of gear off like vulak boots/doze ear/dagarn legs (as I was so focused on AC…).They take identical damage.

I’ve repeated this on a half dozen different mobs and levels. Cliff golems, protector of zek, paebala warrior, all the usual “high ish” mobs. Raid content is laughably bad. In general xp and slightly harder than XP content a 1100ac monk takes 30% less damage than a 1350ac ranger (or thereabouts). The class is broken.

Shamans with identical AC take 15 or 20% less damage than rangers give or take.

Now if you stack HP and MR. You’re amazing still. VP, Fear, Zland? All solid options you can be effective without outright just being a bump. Think I run around 340-345ish MR maxed out so I can take a tash, and have blue flower dispelled and still cap (for fear)… but man why bother, get on a better class and be useful.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shamans with identical AC take 15 or 20% less damage than rangers give or take.

This is the point that has really piqued my interest. Are you comparing average damage per hit (mitigation) or overall damage (including avoidance)?

I would have thought the avoidance benefit of +20 defence would have really shifted things in to the ranger’s benefit.

Perhaps this is actually part of the explanation. Say both ranger and shaman display 1000 AC. A larger portion of the ranger’s displayed AC is avoidance, meaning they have less remaining displayed ac to represent mitigation. Furthermore, perhaps the shaman is using more buff AC than the ranger, which is more effective than worn AC? Oh, or the shaman’s shield ac is going uncapped/double counted (i don’t believe either of those mechanics are classic).

I’ve noticed many rangers don’t bother with their thorncoat line of buffs, even though it represents a large portion of their mitigation.


Okay, no longer discussing the quote and on to something else. From what I understand melee/priests used a similar AC calculator in velious and should have equivalent worn AC hardcaps. Only silk casters had a different equation. If we can control for buff ac rangers should be mitigating similarly / better than a shaman off their worn ac late velious (depending on whether the +20 defence is in or not).

What am I missing? Is there something needing dev attention?

[Solist]

Not all silk casters, on p99, get the same returns for AC.

This isn't everquest. This is an emulator of the memory some guy has of everquest

[Jimjam]

For anyone interested in how AC supposedly did work in classic (so should work here) there are quite a few threads.

I posted the apparent Velious caps here citing this thread as reference.

For future searches:

 

Worn ac hard cap

worn ac soft cap

The post in this thread suggesting shaman takes less damage than ranger indicates the OP of this thread may have the source closest to what p99 is running on.

Looks like worn AC should be hardcapped in Velious. No returns after cap at all. That said, the AC you get from class / skill / buff bonuses added to that hard capped worn ac was soft capped for melee with a fairly small return (other classes had a hard cap on these too).

I aim for 289 worn ac on my toons cos I'm not a cheat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah there is a lot of people who haven’t parsed posting nonsense.

Go get on a 1350 displayed AC ranger and do 4 hours of seb in the same camp. Do the same on a 1000ac displayed ranger or just take a bunch of gear off like vulak boots/doze ear/dagarn legs (as I was so focused on AC…).They take identical damage.

A 1000 AC displayed ranger may well be at the supposed 289 worn AC hardcap, depending on how neglected their AGi is. Even taking off a bunch of gear the Vulak ranger will be way over hardcap. Given this it makes sense that a 1350AC ranger wouldn't mitigate any better. Further more, I imagine these mobs attack values are swamped by AC close to the 'hardcap' anyway. Most of EQ's mobs (outside of expansion raiding) were balanced around banded armour tier AC, right?

[wagorf]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No matter the amount you raid, you will never compete when it matters or have warder loot. hope that helps.

no matter how many times you post, you are still wrong

[Snaggles]

Cap or no cap the fact remains AC is a horrible stat to prioritize (aka at a detriment of others stats) for a ranger, or really any class. Sure if you are comparing two items of similar other stats/hps and one has more ac…get the higher AC one. If you are a tunnel shopper not weighing BiS the gear is heavily skewed one way or another.

In the original post way back the example was Chokidai Pauldrons or Imbued Granite Spaulders. Rather than see it as an AC vs Hp debate what about the 10sv all? I have a some Chokidai’s but not on my ranger, he uses IGS’s constantly. Worn MR is just always good to have and having 200+ FR/CR really takes the steam out of partially resistable AE’s like in ToV which can save you hundreds of hps a fight and many thousands over the course of a raid. Also in this example on blue the cost difference is like 25x so why wouldn’t someone have both??

Any 60 can tank most grind group blues or bump npc in the game for about 20 seconds. Mine floats around with crap hps and only dies on raids if I get aggro when I don’t want it. Nothing is going to save you in that situation besides praying on a lucky warrior weapon proc.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cap or no cap the fact remains AC is a horrible stat to prioritize (aka at a detriment of others stats) for a ranger, or really any class. Sure if you are comparing two items of similar other stats/hps and one has more ac…get the higher AC one. If you are a tunnel shopper not weighing BiS the gear is heavily skewed one way or another.

In the original post way back the example was Chokidai Pauldrons or Imbued Granite Spaulders. Rather than see it as an AC vs Hp debate what about the 10sv all? I have a some Chokidai’s but not on my ranger, he uses IGS’s constantly. Worn MR is just always good to have and having 200+ FR/CR really takes the steam out of partially resistable AE’s like in ToV which can save you hundreds of hps a fight and many thousands over the course of a raid. Also in this example on blue the cost difference is like 25x so why wouldn’t someone have both??

Any 60 can tank most grind group blues or bump npc in the game for about 20 seconds. Mine floats around with crap hps and only dies on raids if I get aggro when I don’t want it. Nothing is going to save you in that situation besides praying on a lucky warrior weapon proc.

You are correct, and the +resis will save you more hp, then +hp items to a certain extent as well, depending on what your base resi was to begin with. Hot for instance, FR up to a certain point will allow you to partial or outright resist some of the wurm aoe (cold harder since lot of cold in velious has -100 mod). this will save you hundreds of hp per attack over the course of a mob.

[Jimjam]

Resists are super handy when you want to help your sub 60 pals in xp content. Resting roots, snares, slows and cripples is a big deal in those situations.