Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You do realize more people read that post? And who would want to post when they get attacked relentlessly? All you are doing is dicouraging people from posting by acting like this. Instead of actually having a dialogue, you simply claim you are correct.

Who is attacking you? I am simply requesting that you provide evidence/data/etc. which supports your claims.

You have been repeatedly demanding others provide evidence to support claims THEY DIDN'T EVEN MAKE (straw men you created which you argue against instead) meanwhile you yourself have blatantly not provided evidence to support your claims.

I and other posters such as bcbrown have continuously and repeatedly attempted to get you to engage in dialogue/civil discussion, but you simply selectively choose to ignore others (such as myself and bcbrown) when they have seemingly backed you into a corner with your own quotes, having provided no evidence to support your own claims. I'll presently remind you of two of them below:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agreement does not mean it is correct. Everybody could claim the sky is orange, but they would still be wrong.

And your below claims are still unsubstantiated (and likely false):

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Up to you to prove it! I look forward to your evidence.

Where's your evidence that supports the below claims again? I don't see it in the hundreds/thousands of posts that you've made in this thread.
Up to you to prove you can name a camp that needs a Shaman!
Up to you to prove Shaman can/does improve a group's DPS (more than a non-epic Mage can/does) by root rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group!
I - still - look forward to your evidence.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As you can see, this spam and nonsense will simply continue.

Why? Instead of "spamming nonsense" you could simply provide evidence to support your claims. It really isn't hard hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

cannot back up claims

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

conceding...refusing to answer

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can keep pretending otherwise to dodge this, but everybody can see it. You concede every time you dodge like this.

Thank you for conceding you cannot back up the below claims.
You can keep attempting to dodge the below, but everybody can see it. You concede every time you dodge like this.

You "need" to provide an(y) example of a camp that "needs" a Shaman to substantiate your claim that you can name multiple camps that "need" a Shaman.

You also "need" to provide evidence that supports your tens/dozens/hundreds/thousands of posts in this thread in which you claimed that Shaman can/does improve a group's DPS (more than a non-epic Mage can/does) by root rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group.

I'm not sure if you've forgotten about these things that you claimed - if so, feel free to refresh your memory at any time by re-reading as the post history is clear and visible to all. You're simply not going to get away with making baseless, unsubstantiated claims. It's really not a good look for you.

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP picked a Shaman for their four man group.

They went with SHM / ENC / 2 Necros

That doesn't mean he agrees with you that ENC / SHM is better than ENC / CLR

Nice try tho

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Elizondo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They went with SHM / ENC / 2 Necros

That doesn't mean he agrees with you that ENC / SHM is better than ENC / CLR

Nice try tho

You asked me, and I delivered. Can't even admit you are wrong.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You asked me, and I delivered. Can't even admit you are wrong.

Thanking everyone for the feedback isn't evidence that OP's group's SHM was influenced by your posts.
Yours in particular could have DETERRED them from playing a Shaman (and other - perhaps better, perhaps more experienced, perhaps more knowledgeable - Shaman players persuaded them), you simply do not know.
OP or the player in question could come here at any point to let us know that they did make their choice based on your input in this thread - if they do, guess what?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agreement does not mean it is correct. Everybody could claim the sky is orange, but they would still be wrong.

This really isn't hard hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You asked me, and I delivered. Can't even admit you are wrong.

Nah

He didn't say you convinced him that SHM / ENC is better than CLR / ENC

A 4 man group decided to pick some classes and play the game. EQ happened.

[bcbrown]

He even said he acknowledges it's probably a sub-optimal group composition, and the OP isn't even the one who picked shaman! He picked necro, so no, you did not convince him.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's up to you to prove Enchanter/Cleric is better than Shaman/Enchanter! I look forward to your evidence.

Shaman provides the Enchanter Malo, a slightly better slow, HP buffs, a pet to off-tank during charm breaks, SoW, heals/regen and Torpor at 60. These are solid additions to bring to a single Enchanter, and no one would say otherwise. But there are some weaknesses:

- Torpor comes very late at 60 and slows the charm pet you cast it on
- SoW can be had from potions
- Malo is good at reducing/delaying charm breaks, but ultimately doesn't stop them or do anything to help the Enchanter when they happen

Now consider what the Cleric brings to the table: the strongest heals in the game, including CH at level 39 for 20pp from a vendor (compare to Shaman Torpor at 60 and basically the most expensive/in-demand spell in the game), ranged stuns to greatly reduce risk during charm breaks, better HP buffs (for Enchanter and pet, increasing CH efficiency), lull/DA combo to make breaking dangerous camps much less risky (Shaman has absolutely nothing to compete with this, the Shaman strategy is just to watch the Enchanter die on a crit resist then log your infamous pocket Cleric), and rez when things really go south.

The basic idea behind Enchanter/Cleric is that charming and the Enchanter class in general are incredibly overpowered in EQ, and that adding the Cleric simply allows you to both 1) substantially reduce the risk and danger of charming, and 2) get the most mileage out of charm pets with the equally overpowered CH spell (which also, unlike Torpor, does not nerf your charm pet DPS).

The Shaman is a great solo class with a unique playstyle, and due to its sheer power and versatility it can duo well with pretty much any other class - but the simple fact is that a Cleric offers a unique skillset that dovetails better with the Enchanter (much in the same way that the Shaman dovetails better with the Monk).

[bcbrown]

Well put, Vexenu.

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shaman provides the Enchanter Malo, a slightly better slow, HP buffs, a pet to off-tank during charm breaks, SoW, heals/regen and Torpor at 60. These are solid additions to bring to a single Enchanter, and no one would say otherwise. But there are some weaknesses:

- Torpor comes very late at 60 and slows the charm pet you cast it on
- SoW can be had from potions
- Malo is good at reducing/delaying charm breaks, but ultimately doesn't stop them or do anything to help the Enchanter when they happen

Now consider what the Cleric brings to the table: the strongest heals in the game, including CH at level 39 for 20pp from a vendor (compare to Shaman Torpor at 60 and basically the most expensive/in-demand spell in the game), ranged stuns to greatly reduce risk during charm breaks, better HP buffs (for Enchanter and pet, increasing CH efficiency), lull/DA combo to make breaking dangerous camps much less risky (Shaman has absolutely nothing to compete with this, the Shaman strategy is just to watch the Enchanter die on a crit resist then log your infamous pocket Cleric), and rez when things really go south.

The basic idea behind Enchanter/Cleric is that charming and the Enchanter class in general are incredibly overpowered in EQ, and that adding the Cleric simply allows you to both 1) substantially reduce the risk and danger of charming, and 2) get the most mileage out of charm pets with the equally overpowered CH spell (which also, unlike Torpor, does not nerf your charm pet DPS).

The Shaman is a great solo class with a unique playstyle, and due to its sheer power and versatility it can duo well with pretty much any other class - but the simple fact is that a Cleric offers a unique skillset that dovetails better with the Enchanter (much in the same way that the Shaman dovetails better with the Monk).

Not to mention the cleric can rez when things go really bad

High Elf Cleric W/ Max CHA + Enc is God Tier duo

Shaman is pitiful compared to that

[Penish]

not sure why people continue to engage this bot

lol