Sleeper being awoken tonight (April 13th)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Reiwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Players who didn't want essence lens to be available are now forced to have it be available. Because of Seal Team's choice, not the timeline created by the staff.

And player's who didn't want Warder loot to be available were forced to have it available before Seal Team woke the Sleeper lol. Because of the player's choice to keep him Sleeping. What's your point? It's the same thing, just in the opposite direction. Not sure why this logic is difficult.

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hey you actually posted something! Looks like you might be ready to end your trolling phase.

You have gotten a lot of these points wrong, or don't understand them. This is why you aren't making progress in this thread. Either you aren't reading, or you just like making up straw men to try and win arguments. In both cases, you are having problems. The post history is clear, so you can easily go back and read things more clearly if you wished to. As you mentioned earlier you are too lazy to do so, so please refrain from posting falsehoods if you can't be bothered to read.

You have a very strange idea that everybody here who disagrees with you is some kind of secret agent for Seal Team trying to create propaganda or something. People can have their opinions about Sleeper and Seal Team without being a propogandist for Seal Team. I have never claimed Seal Team is a hero, for example, so I am not sure why this is your assumption. I am simply defending their right to play the game as intended. There is no problem with that, and it is not propaganda. However Seal Team wants to craft their image is honestly irrelevant to Sleeper. They could be the best heroes or the worst villains, but awaking Sleeper is still a neutral act.

Now, to your current "understanding" of the thread and topic in general:

1. Players choosing to trigger an event that has no timer is a timer - You don't seem to understand analogies, which is why you are failing to comprehend this point (assuming you aren't trolling). Sleeper is not like regular mobs in the game, which are permanent as long as the server is active. Like Manastone, Sleeper is flagged to be permanently removed. Manastone is flagged as a fixed timer, Sleeper is flagged as a timer by vote. Players vote to keep him Sleeping by not killing him. The analogy is really that simple. There is no reason to try and score points by claiming on a technical level, they didn't program it as a timer. That is irrelevant to the analogy, and not a point I was ever making to begin with. I am not sure why it is difficult to understand both Manastone and Sleeper are designed to be removed on P99.

2. Triggering Sleeper is like the devs removing manastone - Correct. As stated above, both Manastone and Sleeper are intended to be removed from the game at some point. If they weren't, they wouldn't work this way. Unless you are claiming it is a bug of some kind?

3. If you're mad at Seal Team you should be mad at server staff too. They created the server. It's their fault - No one said this. This is your straw man version of my previous points. The point is you can't accuse one party of loot denial without accusing the other party of loot denial. It is logically inconsistent to blame Seal Team and not blame the Staff. However, that is NOT me saying you should be mad at the Staff. Don't be mad at the Staff or Seal Team lol, the game is working as intended. I am showing the logical fallacy of thinking you can blame Seal Team of "loot denial", without realizing Manastone is also removed from the game by the Staff. The Staff is not "spitefully loot denying" players, they are simply removing Manastone to simulate the timeline. Similarly, Seal Team is playing the game as intended by the Staff, and are forwarding the simulated timeline. Even assuming Seal Team had the evilest intentions possible, that has no relevance to the Sleeper mechanic. You cannot spitefully play the game by the rules, as intended by the Staff. It is a neutral act, regardless of intentions. Unless you are claiming the cheated or broke the rules somehow?

4. We shouldn't focus on choice - A poor understanding of what I said, yet again. The point I was making was that most players will choose to wake the Sleeper, so you are using the possibility that he remains Sleeping to try and frame the argument like there is a high probability of keeping the Sleeper sleeping. That is not a great argument, as no data shows keeping the Sleeper sleeping is the more common choice. Just because something has a 1% chance of happening, doesn't mean you should expect it to happen. The Staff could certainly bring back Manastone into the drop table at any time. Nothing is preventing this from happening. But I wouldn't argue the slim possibility of this happening means that it's going to happen, or should happen. Similarly, the arguments about choice falsely assume only Seal Team had the choice to wake the Sleeper. As more guilds/players get keyed, the ability to choose decreases.

5. Be mad at your yourself - Correct. Everybody knew the Sleeper would be awoken on Green. It has been known for years. If you failed to gather any information on the Sleeper, or get your character in a position to get Warder loot, you are the only one to blame. Everquest is a game where there is no second place. Either you get the item or you don't. Knowing about limited time content means you need to get busy and get it, or miss out. Blaming others because you didn't put in the work is just silly.

6. Not triggering Sleeper denied essence lens or whatever - Correct. Loot denial is simply the act of preventing players from getting loot. In the case of Sleeper, you are denying loot in either state. If Sleeper remains Sleeping, players cannot get Essence Lens. If Sleeper is awoken, players cannot get Warder loot. It is really that simple, loot denial is not some complex subject matter, it is binary. Either loot is available or it isn't. Anybody who supports keeping the Sleeper sleeping is supporting denying Essence Lens. The only reason why people don't want to think this way is because they don't want to be the bad guys, so they frame the argument as somehow only waking the Sleeper counts as Loot Denial. It is the same fallacy they use to try and claim Seal Team is somehow denying loot, but removing Manastone is somehow different.

7. Be mad at Kingdom - I haven't made this point, or know the history of Kingdom, so I won't comment further.

8. Kingdom may have cheesed a few keys. It's their fault. - I haven't made this point, or know the history of Kingdom, so I won't comment further.

Sleeper still napping on Red?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Elizondo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sleeper still napping on Red?

Irrelevant. Its a dead server. You can't get Warder loot on Red anyway, you can't get enough players to fight them lol. Its a very bad argument to say "all the servers people made that nobody plays count toward how many Sleepers remain sleeping". The only servers that matter are the ones that people play.

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Irrelevant. Its a dead server. You can't get Warder loot on Red anyway, you can't get enough players to fight them lol. Its a very bad argument to say "all the servers people made that nobody plays count toward how many Sleepers remain sleeping". The only servers that matter are the ones that people play.

Is that a yes?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Elizondo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is that a yes?

I'll leave it up to your imagination lol. Either you are going back to your trolling, or you need to improve your thinking skills. I can't do all your thinking for you[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your argument is bad. Even including Red into the statistics (which you wouldn't do because it's dead), the vast majority of Everquest servers that actually matter in the statistics have awoken the Sleeper. You don't count all of the small servers that have 50 people or less, because they can't even kill Warders. They are irrelevant to the discussion, they can't get Warder loot or Essence Lens lol. Their population is the loot denial.

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And player's who didn't want Warder loot to be available were forced to have it available before Seal Team woke the Sleeper lol. Because of the player's choice to keep him Sleeping. What's your point? It's the same thing, just in the opposite direction. Not sure why this logic is difficult.

Indeed, choice. Good talk. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Reiwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Indeed, choice. Good talk. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What are you trying to say? You don't look witty here lol.

You do know the P99 Staff also have a choice to respawn Sleeper right? There is nothing preventing them from doing this other than their choice.

[Rethalis]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What are you trying to say? You don't look witty here lol.

You do know the P99 Staff also have a choice to respawn Sleeper right? There is nothing preventing them from doing this other than their choice.

you seem really worked up over this whole sleeper thing

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What are you trying to say? You don't look witty here lol.

You do know the P99 Staff also have a choice to respawn Sleeper right? There is nothing preventing them from doing this other than their choice.

You said it was a timeline now you say it is a choice.

That's all.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Reiwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You said it was a timeline now you say it is a choice.

That's all.

I really don't understand why you think being extremely petty like this is helping you. I never said it wasn't a choice lol. You can check the post history.

I was using something called an analogy. You might want to look up the definition[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Trying to pretend I said players didn't have a choice is just petty and a poor way to try and score points.