Red99 Stimulus Plan (some constructive feedback)

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Items are a lot easier to get off players than off monsters. 10 minutes of PvP vs 10 hours of a camp. The PvP will increase if item loot is added; more people will attack each other hoping for a windfall. The server will finally differentiate itself from Blue99. All good things.

Item Loot for President.

But it also would effectively negate the anti-pk game...sustainability in the R99 economy isn't what is was on RZ. Item loot would be much more acceptable after the server has aged.

don't u see how item loot would be detrimental at this stage of the server?

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But it also would effectively negate the anti-pk game...sustainability in the R99 economy isn't what is was on RZ. Item loot would be much more acceptable after the server has aged.

don't u see how item loot would be detrimental at this stage of the server?

Er... what?

The anti-pk game would finally be firmly established: PKs are usually those with more skill and items trying to impose their lulz on weaker players. The antis gang up, finally kill the nasty PK and get to loot an item off him like he was a boss mob. This is all good for the antis, and for the server as a whole. More reason to PvP = more PvP.

There is no reason to PvP currently other than the lulz. There is no item loot mechanic, no teams, no mana loss on death... it's exactly as if nobody on the development team ever played on a PvP server, and then ignored anyone who ever did.

This is not what it was like in The Year 2000. This is not classic Everquest PvP. THIS IS WHY the server is drastically falling in population on a noticeably daily basis.

[Softcore PK]

Originally Posted by oldfish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

big text

Good post, oldfish. I agree with a lot of this. Hotzones, and respawning with 0 zero mana should go in imo. And your comment about maybe including xp loss in just raid zones made me think..

Because xp loss at max level is not at all a deterrent. You're already there, and you still have to camp items and kill things with friends to progress, so you're gaining xp always and getting nothing from it. Even pve deaths at max level are usually not a big deal.

And since this server is going to be top-heavy (kinda already is lol), we could probably use some other form of pvp death penalty. As things are, bindrushers 1-49 are penalized (slightly), but max level bindrushers really aren't. Maybe at level 50, a pvp death should be the same xp loss as a pve death? Or half of that?

[oldfish]

Originally Posted by Softcore PK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And since this server is going to be top-heavy (kinda already is lol), we could probably use some other form of pvp death penalty. As things are, bindrushers 1-49 are penalized (slightly), but max level bindrushers really aren't. Maybe at level 50, a pvp death should be the same xp loss as a pve death? Or half of that?

I just dont get why you want to inflict such a harsh penalty over dying in pvp. The only reason i can think of is you want some kind of poopcamp control mechanic.

Problem with going along with that, is if you get a Zerg guild with 2X the numbers of players than the rest of any guild on the server, its basically GG for the server, they get the content, every time, no contest.

You cant attempt a 25v45 raid content contest with a heavy xp loss. People will do it a couple of times, get burned and give up (which is what you want i guess). Each time people will get burned, the harder it will be to gather enough people to try to contest raid content the next time.

With no xp loss, the 25 players will probably get their asses handed to them, but at least they get to have fun attempting to do it, and the 45 side can at least have some opposition, which is what a pvp server is supposed to be about.

Heavy xp loss is a surefire recipe to get people bored and logging off the server. This is true through all levels of the game.

[Softcore PK]

Originally Posted by oldfish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just dont get why you want to inflict such a harsh penalty over dying in pvp. The only reason i can think of is you want some kind of poopcamp control mechanic.

Problem with going along with that, is if you get a Zerg guild with 2X the numbers of players than the rest of any guild on the server, its basically GG for the server, they get the content, every time, no contest.

You cant attempt a 25v45 raid content contest with a heavy xp loss. People will do it a couple of times, get burned and give up (which is what you want i guess). Each time people will get burned, the harder it will be to gather enough people to try to contest raid content the next time.

With no xp loss, the 25 players will probably get their asses handed to them, but at least they get to have fun attempting to do it, and the 45 side can at least have some opposition, which is what a pvp server is supposed to be about.

Heavy xp loss is a surefire recipe to get people bored and logging off the server. This is true through all levels of the game.

This is probably true, exp loss like that really would discourage pvp. I'm just trying to think of ways to deter bindrushing at max level, because judging by the rants forum it IS starting to happen a lot. Do you have any ideas?

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by Softcore PK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is probably true, exp loss like that really would discourage pvp. I'm just trying to think of ways to deter bindrushing at max level, because judging by the rants forum it IS starting to happen a lot. Do you have any idea?

minimal health and mana on respawn due to pvp death...suggested earlier in this thread i think...

[oldfish]

Originally Posted by Softcore PK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is probably true, exp loss like that really would discourage pvp. I'm just trying to think of ways to deter bindrushing at max level, because judging by the rants forum it IS starting to happen a lot. Do you have any ideas?

If you read my big post, "bindrushing" is part of my solution to make the server fun again. That people cant dispatch opposition lower in numbers in a matter of a couple of tries and carry on poopsocking for hours.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by oldfish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

such a harsh penalty over dying in pvp

Oh brother.

[oldfish]

Originally Posted by oldfish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, im gonna try to be utterly constructive cuz i do care about the server and hope it gets better so i can play on it. Im gonna see this as if i was running the server, what would i do to bring the server back on track:

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1 - Agree with suggestion to make 1-20 faster, and boost xp there, so settling on the server, especially for people new to EQ, doesnt feel like a hammer blow to the face. Keep the rest of the game like it is, the grind is fine if you can mix it with pvp on a regular basis. This would also let people mess around with alts when they feel bored. Maybe gradually make xp close to classic as you reach 16-17-18-19 so it doesnt feel like BAM XP WALL when you ding 20.

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2 - Remove XP loss entirely for pvp deaths. This will foster pvp and make the server more action oriented and fun, and will let people take breaks from the big PVE grind without getting discouraged. People will still be able to decide who gets to poopsock when, it will just be an endurance test now. This will remove the overwhelming power zergs have over camps. They will still be powerful, but not as much. I think one of the reason people were able to race to 50 that fast and beg for new content a month later is because pvp didnt happen often because of xp loss. People say XP loss is a non-issue, i disagree. Bindrushing is a non-issue. Ask that guy who thought he was gonna be funny and "bindrush" over and over and a tracker found him in 5mins and now theyre making him camp by bindkilling him over and over. Bindrushing is a non-issue, invented by people who want to import poopsocking mechanics over to red. This will also make gear progression slower. It will be much harder to camp raid content without xp loss, and will make getting items all the more rewarding and cool.

After reading Humerox's reply, im gonna add: Revert the xp loss into what it was on Rallos: Respawn with low (no?) mana and health. That way you can get a drink, piss, etc and come back to game to play again. This is much better than putting people in xp debt. Ironically, you also have to be more careful about where you bind because you spawn with low status bars and you cant start moving as soon as you spawn. Maybe respawn with a bit more health and mana on a pvp death than it was on Rallos, as i remember an ~8min wait for my bars to fill on a level 12 wizard.

The only place where i could maybe agree on xp loss is raiding zones. But even then im not sure because it would make zerg guilds get content close to 100% of the times, so its debatable.

As someone best said it: "Wait, people are pushing for "Nah sorry i cant contest Trakanon i dont wanna delevel to 59" ?"

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3 - Make some Hot zones. Added XP and money (Something like 20%). Have maybe 3 zone sets like this, one for 1-20, one for 21-40 and one for 40-50. This will bottleneck PVP. Maybe even some custom mobs event.

This would still be kept sorta classic as per the 2001 Halloween event, which to me was my best MMO experience, ever. If you have access to the no drop gear those halloween mobs dropped and to the models/graphics etc, this would be an awesome way to make some hot zone events. Like the undead dragon in rathe, spectres in EK and shit like that. I would even be down to add custom events if devs cant access the halloween shit. Fighting twinks when i started out on Rallos was so hard i almost quit. The main reason i stayed on server is i succeeded in getting 8-9 no drop gear pieces on halloween that made me be able to handle twinks more. As the server gets older, these events where noobs can get nodrop gear will give a goal to new blood entering the server and help them feel they wont have to remain twink fodder forever.

I would have the hotzones on a daily basis, and the events maybe once a week, 2 weeks or each month.

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4 - Patch in voluntary item loss to test the waters. Let players turn in an item at an NPC, which will make them "Dark red". Dark red players can be looted by other Dark Red players, and can loot other Dark Red players.

In order for the mechanic to kick in, dark red players have to do 70%+ damage on a player to prevent 5v1 with only 1 dark red player gank squads (to be tweaked with feedback). The looter gets all the coin +1 item the wearer didnt bag before dying. Im not suggesting "dark red" players be actually identifiable (such as with level con). It would be up to players to discover whos lootable and whos not, again, fostering PVP.

This could be reversible, but on a long timer (Like you get a message saying "In a week you will be back to regular red" or something)

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5- View opinions from people whose main fun you can tell is griefing people off the server or poopsocking with a heavy dose of grains of salt.

So... how 'bout it? If xp loss was removed id make an alt right today :/

[Vile]

hot zones plz