Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Throughout the thread we've discussed pathing there, from what I've seen in the zone it seems to be a lot better than when the zone first came out. Although I've only had a VP key about 9-10 months now so I cant speak to how it was on release.

If you aggrod a wurm and didn't stop to let it attack you, it would constantly path back and forth in place until you stopped. they would also fly through the air and wall once your Zaxis differed from their's by so much. It was pretty horrendous.

Also, I wouldn't say that having no reports about pathing being a good thing. Not sure how many people would have kept putting them in since release and hoping that it would get better, I know a few people in IB posted about it and some from TMO as well and it was months without anything really happening. I'm pretty sure most just figured it was there to stay. Basically, if it was changed and no one really said they could tell a difference, it was probably a subtle change.

I'm not using that to advocate training still exist, just saying it would be odd for it to improve a great deal and no one comment on it.

Sirken could easily go into VP and judge the pathing for himself and decide if he wanted him and his CSR peeps to pick up the extra work. The zone is still a clusterfluck with 2 guilds trying to get pulls and navigate together, even when they aren't trying to wipe out the other side.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I see VP pathing being discussed. Without getting into the whole point of this thread..

Pathing was updated for VP last patch by our new pathing developer. When discussing the path file .. are you guys talking about current pathing, or pathing since VP was released? It's been changed for little under a month now with no reports.

Nilbog does not state that pathing in VP was fixed, doesn't even hint to it. He said it was updated, doesn't mention how much of an update or anything.

If you didn't want someone to respond to a particular part of your post and detract from your "point" perhaps you should have removed it. You can speculate all you want on the reason why things are and I can freely correct you on it.

The devs aren't just going to come here and answer every question you have either, they have shit to do. Players need to understand realistically how they can help. If you have skills that could be useful, make it known. There are obvious channels on how to go about donating your time and applying to help.

[timhutton]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nilbog does not state that pathing in VP was fixed, doesn't even hint to it. He said it was updated, doesn't mention how much of an update or anything.

If you didn't want someone to respond to a particular part of your post and detract from your "point" perhaps you should have removed it. You can speculate all you want on the reason why things are and I can freely correct you on it.

The devs aren't just going to come here and answer every question you have either, they have shit to do. Players need to understand realistically how they can help. If you have skills that could be useful, make it known. There are obvious channels on how to go about donating your time and applying to help.

So pathing being updated != fixing pathing in your mind? Interesting.. I guess they were making it worse for some reason?

Anyway, I'm not removing my statement because it's valid to my point. It would appear TMO does not want training to go away. Training going away is partially reliant on pathing being fixed.

Therefore one can surmise that TMO has no urgent need to report broken pathing and get it fixed. This notion is further by Nilbog saying that he has not heard anything in the month since the "non-fixes" (or however you wish to refer to them) went in.

You can make any excuse you want, however winking when a lead-gm describes pathing exploits and hinting that you know of them (yet I doubt you or anyone in TMO has reported them) doesn't exactly inspire confidence in your caring to see them fixed.

So again, the players need to know what they can do to help this situation, and those players are most likely going to need to be someone that is not in TMO. I'm sure FE and other guilds have many anxious people willing to help fix and report on VP pathing, they just need to be told what to do.

Edit: They also need to be allowed in the zone to mess around without threat of being instantly killed if they're trying to better the server.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by timhutton [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So pathing being updated != fixing pathing in your mind? Interesting.. I guess they were making it worse for some reason?

Anyway, I'm not removing my statement because it's valid to my point. It would appear TMO does not want training to go away. Training going away is partially reliant on pathing being fixed.

Therefore one can surmise that TMO has no urgent need to report broken pathing and get it fixed. This notion is further by Nilbog saying that he has not heard anything in the month since the "non-fixes" (or however you wish to refer to them) went in.

You can make any excuse you want, however winking when a lead-gm describes pathing exploits and hinting that you know of them (yet I doubt you or anyone in TMO has reported them) doesn't exactly inspire confidence in your caring to see them fixed.

So again, the players need to know what they can do to help this situation, and those players are most likely going to need to be someone that is not in TMO. I'm sure FE and other guilds have many anxious people willing to help fix and report on VP pathing, they just need to be told what to do.

Edit: They also need to be allowed in the zone to mess around without threat of being instantly killed if they're trying to better the server.

Updated and Fixed are still two different things. Updated means it's simply changed and hopefully for the better, fixed means it's finished and at a desired and completely functioning state.

Again, pathing issues were reported on Day 1. Pathing is still nearly as horrid was it was then, as stated by Sirken.

As far as people not reporting it from inside TMO, I've already stated that they have (I know for a fact Perun posted a thread about it and several members of both guilds, IB and TMO, commented on it).

On a side note, it doesn't take any outside players to check the pathing in VP. After pathing updates, any GM/Guide/Dev could go into vp and test the updates.

It's quite clear you are commenting from a point of view that is severely lacking knowledge of the server and it's history.

[spoils]

After reading bits and pieces of this thread and LOLing a lot...

i've come to the conclusion that...

1) Training should be outlawed in ALL zones.
2) GM's should not pop in and rez people for their fuckups, hence no CSR.
3) Simulated Patch Days would really help the entire server and clear up the shitty scene in VP

With ALL 3 pointed implemented, the raid scene here would get better overnight.

The only hope after that is for revamps to occur which will allow certain epics to be somewhat less of a pipedream.

For critics saying "zomg, get more skill to avoid the trains in VP". Skill should simply be judged on the guild's ability to kill the trash mobs before repop and kill the boss based on its scripts, which was intended. If it's too easy then...well i mean...you win eq and congrats! really...after you've won eq, wait for velious.

[Zapatos]

In regards to 'accidental trains' if VP became a non-training zone:

The aggro radius of all monsters in there, other than the 6 named dragons, is extremely small and there are numerous spots to camp a raid where mobs will not be pathing. Additionally, any raid is going to have at least 1 druid or ranger charged with casting harmony on all potential nearby threats, whether engaged or not.

You really have to try to train a raid and it's going to be extremely obvious to anyone watching. I don't think the "VP can still be full of accidental trains" is a valid excuse in the discussion of letting training continue.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Zapatos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In regards to 'accidental trains' if VP became a non-training zone:

The aggro radius of all monsters in there, other than the 6 named dragons, is extremely small and there are numerous spots to camp a raid where mobs will not be pathing. Additionally, any raid is going to have at least 1 druid or ranger charged with casting harmony on all potential nearby threats, whether engaged or not.

You really have to try to train a raid and it's going to be extremely obvious to anyone watching. I don't think the "VP can still be full of accidental trains" is a valid excuse in the discussion of letting training continue.

When is the last time you were in VP (legitimate question btw, not snarky remark)?

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When is the last time you were in VP (legitimate question btw, not snarky remark)?

Vp pathing has been changed in the last update, I was there yesterday and a lot of the pathing issues seem to be resolved. Again, not ALL of them are...but its a lot better than it was when the sanctioned training rules were put in.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Vp pathing has been changed in the last update, I was there yesterday and a lot of the pathing issues seem to be resolved. Again, not ALL of them are...but its a lot better than it was when the sanctioned training rules were put in.

The last time I went in, was some time after the zone had been turned into an outside zone and the aggro ranges seemed to be slightly larger than when the zone was first released. That's why I was asking him, the pathing was slightly better then too, as wurms rarely pathed in place compared to constantly pathing in place.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The last time I went in, was some time after the zone had been turned into an outside zone and the aggro ranges seemed to be slightly larger than when the zone was first released. That's why I was asking him, the pathing was slightly better then too, as wurms rarely pathed in place compared to constantly pathing in place.

The agro range seems fairly small still, Im able to harmony mobs from ranges that would normally result in aggro'ing the mobs in other zones.