Discussion: PvP Deaths (Item/Coin/XP Loot/Gain)

[jilena]

Teams = meh

Item Loot (without exp loss) = encourage naked players ganking geared players with no fear of loss themselves. Removing the risk and only allowing for reward. I think this is fail and should never be implemented.

Item Loot (with exp loss) = Provides more of a deterent for naked ganking of other players. I am okay with item loot only in this situation, though overall I am still indifferent to this feature as I don't really think it adds anything *THAT* exciting to gameplay.

Exp Loss = Best PvP penalty for Everquest. It effects all people in all states of clothing and in whatever situation equally. Does it make it easier to drive sissies to QQ when they get bind camped? Yep. But those same sissies are going to QQ when they get bind camped regardless.

Coin Loss = Who cares. It makes it annoying to have to go bank your coin every time you decide to move around but really has minimal effect on game play outside of the occasionally funny loading up your 200+ str ogre with copper so when some wizzie loots you they are unable to move.

Exp Gain = I am indifferent on this. I don't think anyone playing on a PvP server needs a reward or encouragement to kill people. People will kill each other because that's why most of them play there. *shrug*

[Runningfish]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We are leaning towards a server with no item or coin loot, however there will be an XP Loss on PvP Deaths. We are open to discussion on this.

I think people will be hiding from PvP rather than actively seeking it out due to these rules. Item loot if implemented well would be fine with me. Or coin loot helps add some extra incentive to PvP. Why would I take a risk killing someone when there is literally no reward and a good chance I will die and lose my hard earned exp. Not only losing exp from that death but putting myself into a potentially bad position to get killed again while on the CR.

To me you can't have just one of these things without the other. Not having exp loss from pvp is probably exploitable. So to have PvP exp loss in you have to also have a reward system in to make it worth the trouble of constantly losing exp from PvP'ing. I've seen other threads mention a token system, sounds reasonable but also like a lot more work. The problem with PvP exp gain is the amount of players a person actually kills is very small compared to grinding mobs. So the amount of exp gained when killing a player would have to be much greater to make it worth the risk of death. This then becomes exploitable unless preventative measures are put in.

Cash loot adds a level of danger without being too ridiculous. It also serves as at least some incentive to kill someone aside from the fun.

[jilena]

Originally Posted by Runningfish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think people will be hiding from PvP rather than actively seeking it out due to these rules. Item loot if implemented well would be fine with me. Or coin loot helps add some extra incentive to PvP. Why would I take a risk killing someone when there is literally no reward and a good chance I will die and lose my hard earned exp. Not only losing exp from that death but putting myself into a potentially bad position to get killed again while on the CR.

To me you can't have just one of these things without the other. Not having exp loss from pvp is probably exploitable. So to have PvP exp loss in you have to also have a reward system in to make it worth the trouble of constantly losing exp from PvP'ing. I've seen other threads mention a token system, sounds reasonable but also like a lot more work. The problem with PvP exp gain is the amount of players a person actually kills is very small compared to grinding mobs. So the amount of exp gained when killing a player would have to be much greater to make it worth the risk of death. This then becomes exploitable unless preventative measures are put in.

Cash loot adds a level of danger without being too ridiculous. It also serves as at least some incentive to kill someone aside from the fun.

You do have reward already. You PvP for resources in the game or for the fun of killing. Resources being control of exp spots/dungeons/spawns/targets/quest items/whatever. Fun is obviously fun.

As items and exp are pretty much all the rewards there are in Everquest, you have the best incentive ever to fight over them. *shrug*

[Runya]

I played on rallos so im pro item loot....i understand people are afraid to lose pixels but it isnt hard to gear up in no drop.Maybe increase drop rates so it isnt so bad?? Maybe only make jewelry etc lootable?I personally loved the thrill of losing/gaining an item....it created more rivalries then anything else back in the day.And dropped gear was cheaper to obtain.Increase drop rate a lil and make it one item already......or have crews with grinded up gear roll noobs without any fear....lose more people tp gear inbalance than item loot perhaps....

[Runya]

Pvp points based on kills? Then a pvp merchant? Id really hate to have to go blue for all my gear. What about item loot with no drop rewards from pvp vendor?? Sounds like incentive to pvp if you could buy no drop versions of current gear. Just ideas....

[Runningfish]

I am an everquest bluebie...

Guess you probably stopped reading there.. That said i played shadowbane for a long time and quite a few other pvp based MMO's. I understand that most of the fun from pvp comes from just killing each other over hate, territory, ect ect. I agree with pretty much all of what your saying. I get all of my fun in EQ from player interaction, so it may have been shortsighted of me to draw my previous conclusions.

So instead of arguing this point further I'll just say that I agree. Most likely it would be better for me if there's no item/coin loot since I will probably be on the losing end most of the time anyways. If anything I'd support limited item and or coin because it adds some extra danger. The higher my chance of losing or gaining something the more my adrenaline starts pumping. Regardless I'll be there =P

[jilena]

I am only anti-item loot if there isn't some other penalty. Too many classes in EQ are OP with no gear or minimal gear for pure item+coin to work. It's pretty easy to naked gank with a pair of casters. Melees would be at a severe disadvantage. Even if they got some buddies together and killed the guys off that ganked them, they guys doing the ganking would have nothing to lose in the nude. No risk to justify the reward of looting other people's items. Add in exp loss or something to deter this sort of behavior and I am totally down with item loot.

[Bockscar]

Exp loss wouldn't change anything at all. We had it on SZ and nobody gave a shit, it had no influence on people's actions. If it's possible to PvP naked with no risk to your own property while you can loot others, people will do it. A naked caster still has the upper hand against a geared melee until way lategame.

It looks like they're going with bagloot anyway. That's an acceptable compromise because it makes melee playable and gives people no reason to PvP naked, but it's still a puzzle considering the majority has always been against itemloot of any kind and that bagloot only really fixes a couple of the many problems. It also introduces a few new ones. If the devs are stubborn enough to go against the majority sentiment, logical arguments and the history of itemloot, bagloot is at least better than traditional itemloot.

[Yukahwa]

Bagloot means that melees cant keep multiple weapon sets..it means some special stuff will need to happen for bards that need multiple instruments + weapons..and it still doesn't mean twinks have to stay on their toes once twinks become a big part of the game for lower end dudes.

I think it is better than no loot but hardly. It has the disadvantages of item loot (worry about your stuff) and none of the advantages (be afraid to wear your best stuff)

People being afraid to wear their best gear is a balancing factor. There are enough PVP guys that will play either way..and enough bored blue99 players that will join this server for fun. Its going to be hard and yes old world is harder in some ways for melees.

I really think regular rallos style item loot is the best answer to this question overall.

[jilena]

I have to say bag loot is pretty much retarded too. Any sort of item loot system that allows for some sort of loophole is pretty easily exploited. All bag loot does is fuck the few classes that have to carry around multiple items and promote running around with an empty inventory when ganking. It's not a penalty that will matter to those that abuse the system.

Exp loss while nothing to deter people from ganking, is enough to deter people from keeping it up once things are no longer in their favor. No one is gonna bind rush with an empty inventory if it gets them killed down a few levels with unrezzable exp (assuming you can loot naked corpses to make them poof). *shrug*