sk starting points

[Lune]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It really isn't. 5% of 20 DPS is 1 DPS. On a mob with 900 HP, you are saving 2 seconds per kill. If they are on a 30 minute respawn timer, you are saving 4 seconds per hour.

If you are killing 10 of these mobs, you are saving a total of 40 seconds per hour.

You would need to kill this group of 10 mobs for 45 hours non-stop to see an extra spawn cycle.

40 seconds per hour isn't going to be enough time to meditate a significant amount of mana, take a longer break, etc.

What if, instead of being completely retarded, we don't just assume we're camping a single mob with a 30 minute respawn timer, or even just 10 mobs in an hour?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What if, instead of being completely retarded, we don't just assume we're camping a single mob with a 30 minute respawn timer, or even just 10 mobs in an hour?

Because if you have played P99, you would know that a lot of people are not bard kiting 25 mobs at all times.

I camped guards while soloing my SK most of the time. My example was killing 10 mobs every 30 minutes, not 10 mobs an hour. This means 20 mobs an hour.

One good guard camp is East Freeport Guards. I think there are 10 of them total in the area, and they are on a 30 minute respawn timer. This fits my example perfectly.

In reality a lot of solo camps have hard limits on mobs, and there are not 20+ mobs available on a single cycle. That doesn't mean they are bad camps.

A lot of group camps have limits too, depending on zone popularity, mob distribution, difficultly of mobs, etc.

This is the reality of Everquest. It is not common to simply sit in camp with autoattack on for an hour straight while someone pulls in an endless supply of mobs. There are areas where you can do this if the zone is empty, but that is not what most people are doing most of the time.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because if you have played P99, you would know that a lot of people are not bard kiting 25 mobs at all times.

I camped guards while soloing my SK most of the time. My example was killing 10 mobs every 30 minutes, not 10 mobs an hour. This means 20 mobs an hour.

One good guard camp is East Freeport Guards. I think there are 10 of them total in the area, and they are on a 30 minute respawn timer. This fits my example perfectly.

In reality a lot of solo camps have hard limits on mobs, and there are not 20+ mobs available on a single cycle. That doesn't mean they are bad camps.

A lot of group camps have limits too, depending on zone popularity, mob distribution, difficultly of mobs, etc.

This is the reality of Everquest. It is not common to simply sit in camp with autoattack on for an hour straight while someone pulls in an endless supply of mobs. There are areas where you can do this if the zone is empty, but that is not what most people are doing most of the time.

So why choose to use a situation where you're limited by spawn timers as an example? That is not a situation where you are pushing your character, making stats largely irrelevant (notably, with the exception of strength), nor is it the most common way to level.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In reality a lot of solo camps have hard limits on mobs, and there are not 20+ mobs available on a single cycle. That doesn't mean they are bad camps.

A lot of group camps have limits too, depending on zone popularity, mob distribution, difficultly of mobs, etc.

Actually, that does mean they are bad camps, unless you are committed to having afk time/down time/minimal effort

[Troxx]

Edit: nevermind … he figured it out

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[Troxx]

Ok now that we have established that math is math … it is not subjective and that calculators do work …

Most people would consider upgrading a FBSS to a RBB to be a huge upgrade (5% dmg boost). Most would consider jumping from 34% worn haste to 41% huge upgrade (3.5% dmg boost). We can therefore conclude that most people would find a 3.5-5% range dps boost to be a big upgrade.

You own parses showed a 4.3% dmg boost from 20 strength as a level 60 vs a level 5 turtle.

How is this not significant again?

[Vexenu]

DSM has yet to articulate a compelling argument or provide any actual evidence for his contention that the added mana from 20 INT confers a meaningful advantage for an Iksar SK. His only points are literally, "You should pump INT because it's harder to cap" and "It could theoretically give you enough extra mana to FD and save your life one day". But neither of these statements are logical arguments for pumping INT over STR:

1) CHA is the hardest stat for an SK to cap, so why not pump it? The answer is obvious: because it doesn't confer enough of an advantage to do so. The same logic applies to INT in this case.

2) Pumping INT just because you might one day get off an extra FD from it makes no sense. Theoretically, a lot of things might happen in EQ. Theoretically, extra STR might also make the narrow difference between life and death in some bizarre, highly improbable scenario. Or extra DEX might give you an Epic proc that saves your life. Or extra STA might give you just enough buffer not to die before a CH lands. Because of this, a theoretical argument for INT is no more valid than a theoretical argument for any other stat, most especially STR.

Why? Because STR is the only stat that provides IRREFUTABLE AND CONCRETE benefits both IN and OUT of combat, as has been exhaustively demonstrated in this thread. Whether the precise value is 4 or 5% added DPS is irrelevant, as is how many extra kills this might generate per hour in your tortured examples. The point is that this benefit exists. It is real. You cannot handwave it away. It is a real benefit that can be objectively proven. Added carry weight is also a real, concrete benefit. There is no argument against it. Carrying more weight provides meaningful value. Everyone who has played EQ understands this intuitively.

In contrast, there remains no way to demonstrate any sort of conclusive value from the extra mana provided by INT. SKs do not EVER dump their mana 100-0 in the way that a Wizard, Druid or Cleric regularly does, or the way that another caster might occasionally have need to do. Good SKs spend most of their active playtime hovering between 25% and 75% mana. They leave enough reserve in the tank to account for any emergencies, while ensuring that they don't waste any mana regen by sitting around at full mana. Because of this, adding extra mana on top of their mana pool provides little in the way of value to begin with, and whatever value it does provide simply cannot be accounted for accurately. It's like if your car holds holds enough gasoline to drive 500 miles without filling up, but you never drive more than 50 miles at a time. In this case, expanding your gas tank makes NO SENSE and provides you zero value. And that goes exactly the same for expanding the SK's mana pool by pumping INT in this scenario.

[Lune]

Yep, and then KC gets cleared out and everyone gets shit XP. Apparently people should be gearing and allocating stats based on AFK camps and shitty overcrowded zones? Someone should tell OP lol

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yep, and then KC gets cleared out and everyone gets shit XP. Apparently people should be gearing and allocating stats based on AFK camps and shitty overcrowded zones? Someone should tell OP lol

Yea he's just insufferable can't have a conversation with him good luck to you

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea he's just insufferable can't have a conversation with him good luck to you

As per usual, when you realize you are wrong, you go back to insults.

I am really not sure why you think that respawn timers are not a significant factor for a ton of camps on P99. Popular ones at that. This is basic knowledge.

[Lune]

I had a dorm-mate with aspergers in college; sometimes he'd argue about something easily verifiable like the date something happened, and when pressed on it, he'd just continue to deny, and start laughing nervously, continuing to deny something plainly evident, like on some level he knew he was wrong but just couldn't bring his brain wiring to admit it.