Raid Suspension: The Mystical Order

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by PhilMcKracken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Situations that you are listing are situations that would never happen in VP. 1. Why would anyone pull a single wurm when dragons are up during any engage? That's dumb as hell.
FTE messages are pretty clear cut and anyone single group killing a single mob in fear while someone is engaging should be held responsible. Not to mention, you should be telling that group that you are about to engage and if they fuck up your engage, it should be their fault. The situation can be exploited both ways, there is no perfect way. It can be exploited to where a guild trains up to kill a mob in VP and guild B is doing the same. Guild A trained up first so guild B has the choice to pull through or hold the pull, which can fuck them over in the long run. Guild B beats Guild A to pulling to the zoneline but in the process ran past Guild A's train transferring agro because you have no idea what the other guild is doing. Guild A drops the train up and causes a wipe and blames it on Guild B because they pulled through their train up. The mechanic can be exploited either way, if you are the person training up, you are responsible for that and if you fuck it up, its on you. Next time wait for IB to train up since your claim seems to be they never can do it or aren't capable of doing it. If these claims are all true, you shouldn't be dealing with any of these situations.

So let's babysit IB while they continue to wipe during repops because they can never execute a train up properly while Hoshkar and Silverwing are up. Gotcha.

[Vyal]

Originally Posted by TMBLOW [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i think this guy keeps getting dumber with each post, or is it just me

Im sorry I thought this was the special kids party thread where everyone is banging their heads against brick walls for 44 pages now and you have got nowhere.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


Retard puller didn't clear agro killed zone end of story ffs...

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by PhilMcKracken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Next time you are in fear, go wipe IB's raid and see if you get suspended, if you are there to start killing a single mob and drop it on them while they have FTE on CT. I'm pretty sure that hypothetical situation wouldn't work out for you so well.

You never drop it. You simply wait for them to engage CT so it summons their tanks. CT aggros the entire zone and his assist goes to the top of every mob in the zones aggro table.

[Socratic]

Originally Posted by PhilMcKracken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wall of text.

The difference is that in one case someone is standing at zone in with aggro pulling mobs on everyone so they are at fault, and in the other case that same person can stand there forever and it's now someone else's responsibility to keep all the mobs away from them from now until .... the server crashes?

It's a stupid idea, and way way worse than the way it's been done up until now.

Right now if you pull something to zone in you need to do your own trainaway, kill the mob, and then everyone clears aggro (the way it should be, and it's clean).

Someone else training up before you do DOES NOT SCREW YOU at all. Obviously you haven't done this, or you'd know that. Your options are easy. You either run with that person, buff them, thereby holding their aggro, or you wait for their trainup to come back part way, tag it, run up, and do your thing. Nothing changes because some other guild decided to train up before you.

Yet now because of a short-sighted idea player X can stand at zone in with aggro for an hour while player B must hold the mobs away or be suspended?

If you pull through mobs then your responsible for the resulting aggro. It's the only reasonable way to do it.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by PhilMcKracken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It must be really really hard to sit and watch a guild that supposedly doesn't know how to train up themselves (by your guild's word) and will wipe otherwise and then go grab the kill yourself. A lot of babysitting there.

We have changed since 2 months ago. Now we let them pull and wipe. It happens a lot to them on repops. Xygoz destroyed them 2 repops ago because they have no clue how to execute with the roaming dragons up. The last repop they couldn't execute a Druushk pull for the same reasons.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by PhilMcKracken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right and I'm saying you try that next time and see how that works out for you. Anyone would know what the person is doing right away....If a group of TMO randomly decided to start killing a single mob in fear while IB or visa versa is engaging it would be blatantly obvious and they would be to blame. The only time I would say this would happen is when a Class R and Class C guild are in fear and even then if you send a tell as soon as you zone in or whoever starts the train, it would defeat that idea.

It would work fine I can't be at fault for simply killing a mob in a zone.

[Socratic]

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Socratic

You can keep posting your rage posts every where. All of this is stupid on both parties. Don't train shit, and shit won't happen. Sounds like a easy solution to me. There has been a number of times where TMO had been petitioned on about training, and Sirken ruled it was a bad situation and not controllable. So to say this situation happens all the time and to be so upset about it is overboard. They do take into consideration the situation.

Wasn't IB suspended for training you guys with a dragon also? Why is it now ok and the other people should watch their aggro? Don't focus on the training part, focus on the punishment that was different.

TMO didn't petition for this. Honestly VP pulling is a mess and clearing your aggro isn't always that simple, so afaik TMO doesn't petition random pulling bullshit (even when IB trains our pullers accidentally going for FTE on dragons). This idiotic ruling may change things though, and create a big mess where there didn't need to be one.

"Don't train shit" isn't a solution, unless the staff wants to completely change the rules. As you've made clear, you don't know wtf you're talking about and are putting forth a simple-minded idea that in practice would be a nightmare. Maybe you're just stirring the pot, this is rnf after all.

IB was never (afaik) suspended for training us with a dragon, unless you mean they had to give up the next spawn of that individual dragon (I think that happened on Nexona, and the situation wasn't even close to the same, they pulled it and brought it all the way).

The reason I'm angry is that IB trained themselves to get TMO suspended. The suspension itself isn't even the issue really, it's the implications for raiding that are insane. This decision makes it possible to purposefully cause a train and get your competition suspended for it. It's dumb, and will only create more work for staff.

I can't believe Sirken is still hiding from this mistake.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by PhilMcKracken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol so when 2 mobs are in both up at the same time or a server repop, both guilds will train up at the same time? Yeah that idea sounds like shit.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] It is the only way to pull and control the aggro so it doesn't train both guilds.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by PhilMcKracken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Prove that. You guys are starting to sound retarded now and looking for any loophole you can. Its kinda along the lines of say you are running to zone out because your group just died and someone runs past you and gets agro from all those mobs once you zone out. You are a cleric, the person sends you a tell saying hey dude that train you just ran past me, aggroed on me and killed my whole group, what do you do and are you to blame? Go.

No we are giving you examples that makes this ruling terrible. I am sorry if you don't understand game mechanics.

Originally Posted by PhilMcKracken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As to this, I'm not too sure about. I'm sure IB does wipe sometimes because their numbers are from what I hear around 40 or so in VP compared to 60-80. You do the math. Sounds like if you would of embraced that idea 2 months ago, you'd be in the clear.

Someone lied to you about the numbers. IB has close to 50 VP raiders. There are hours where they struggle to get 30 on. We have around 65 to 70 and there are hours where we struggle to get on 35.

[Socratic]

Originally Posted by PhilMcKracken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol so when 2 mobs are in both up at the same time or a server repop, both guilds will train up at the same time? Yeah that idea sounds like shit.

Actually both guilds can trainup at the same time no problem. It's very easy. Whoever trains up first can be bracer'd by the other guild, or if one trainer drops their mobs they can be easily tagged on the way down and pulled back up again. It's not hard at all. It's not even really exploitable afiak. At least it has never been exploited.

Pulling mobs somewhere for the purpose of trying to wipe another guild's pull would be obvious, and to my knowledge it has never been done. If it had then the person/guild involved would have likely been punished (and it probably wouldn't even work).

Really the mechanics to pull cleanly to zone in aren't hard. There has been no issue at all that i've seen with the way things have been done for the last long while.

This ruling punishing a guild for their competition training themselves is what throws all that into question and has a lot of people up in arms.