Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[bcbrown]

You were already talking about root-rotting in the same post when you claimed you never said that.

Thank you for conceding that you did and do claim that "a shaman could put out dps similar to a 60 focused water pet mage in a group."

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please quote me where I said any of this. The entire purpose of comparing a Mage's DPS to a Shaman's DPS is to get an idea of what the gap is. This makes it easier to determine the what the DPS loss is vs. the utility gained.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gdAIheodtY - Here is an example of root rotting in Velks. You can provide a video of a Mage killing the same mobs, and we can see who wins!

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the specific case of a Shaman being allowed to Root/Rot while doing little else, yes.

Can you think of any conceivable scenario where it would be beneficial to have the Shaman join the group only to "root/rot [mobs off to the side] while doing little else"?

Wouldn't the Shaman and the group each be better off if the Shaman were just soloing, in that case? Since the Shaman is providing no utility value to the group, and the group is doing nothing to increase the Shaman's kill speed?

Do you see how ridiculous this idea is now?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You were already talking about root-rotting in the same post when you claimed you never said that.

Thank you for conceding that you did and do claim that "a shaman could put out dps similar to a 60 focused water pet mage in a group."

This is a silly attempt at a gotcha. Look at the two quotes below:

1. "A shaman could put out dps similar to a 60 focused water pet mage in a group."

2. "A Shaman could put out dps similar to a 60 focused water pet mage in a group while root rotting is their primary function in a group killing XP mobs".

To claim the two quotes are the same is simply nonsense. The first quote is too vague, and doesn't describe the situation in which a Shaman can increase their DPS. It's an attempt to make it sound like I was saying Shamans out DPS Mages in all scenarios, which isn't true.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can you think of any conceivable scenario where it would be beneficial to have the Shaman join the group only to "root/rot [mobs off to the side] while doing little else"?

Wouldn't the Shaman and the group each be better off if the Shaman were just soloing, in that case? Since the Shaman is providing no utility value to the group, and the group is doing nothing to increase the Shaman's kill speed?

Do you see how ridiculous this idea is now?

Sure. A group of level 60s getting some XP to make up for the 4-10% loss in XP you get for being resurrected. You don't need to do advanced group tactics to kill mobs that a Shaman or Enchanter could quickly solo.

[bcbrown]

You can either concede that when talking about "grouping", no one (including you!) is talking about a shaman root-rotting off on the side, or you can concede that when Crede described your position as "a shaman could put out dps similar to a 60 focused water pet mage in a group", it was accurate.

You can't have it both ways.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can either concede that when talking about "grouping", no one (including you!) is talking about a shaman root-rotting off on the side, or you can concede that when Crede described your position as "a shaman could put out dps similar to a 60 focused water pet mage in a group", it was accurate.

You can't have it both ways.

I can have it both ways, in fact. There is nothing in the game that stipulates you cannot root rot in a group, nor has any evidence been provided to suggest it is a problem.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm glad DSM can find groups that let him go off on his own and root rot stuff, but I find the whole concept pretty repulsive.

I know you personally don't like the idea of root rotting in a group, but that isn't relevant to the fact that you can root rot in a group. I was specifically talking about root rotting in a group.

Crede was not describing my position as "A Shaman could put out dps similar to a 60 focused water pet mage in a group while root rotting is their primary function in a group killing XP mobs". I am not sure why you think I have to accept his generic statement of: "A shaman could put out dps similar to a 60 focused water pet mage in a group", when it is incorrect and brings with it incorrect assumptions about what I said.

To give an example, let's say you agreed with me that root rotting is a viable method for soloing. You might say something like "I enjoy root rotting". If I simply posted that as your view on root rotting, it would exclude your opinion that root rotting in a group is bad. As you can see, your position isn't simply "I enjoy root rotting", it is "I enjoy root rotting in solo scenarios, not group scenarios".

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To give an example, let's say you agreed with me that root/rotting is a viable method for soloing. You might say something like "I enjoy root rotting". If I simply posted that as your view on root rotting, it would exclude your opinion that root rotting in a group is bad. As you can see, your position isn't simply "I enjoy root rotting", it is "I enjoy root rotting in solo scenarios, not group scenarios".

This is entirely off-topic to the point I was litigating, but I have in fact made my position clear on root-rotting, both grouping and soloing:

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's also a lot more interesting to me. Root rotting is sitting around waiting for the mob to die, then sitting around waiting to med up. I'd rather be standing up and swinging a club.

Have a chuckle with me at this amusing coincidence!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is entirely off-topic to the point I was litigating, but I have in fact made my position clear on root-rotting, both grouping and soloing:



Have a chuckle with me at this amusing coincidence!

Ah yes, I remember that thread[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with you that root/rotting is less exciting than melee. It does produce good results, however, which is why people use it.

One of the reasons why I like Shadowknights is because they have a heavier focus on melee, while also having access to some nice Necro spells. It would be nice if the game balance was more in favor of melee instead of casters. But alas, here we are.

[Duik]

Not a chance. I need at least one more reply.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure. A group of level 60s getting some XP to make up for the 4-10% loss in XP you get for being resurrected. You don't need to do advanced group tactics to kill mobs that a Shaman or Enchanter could quickly solo.

Ok, but can you admit that even in this scenario, both the Shaman and the other members of the group would each be getting better XP if the Shaman were just root rotting solo?

What you are suggesting is literally no different than a Bard joining an XP group and swarm kiting off to the side, or a Wizard doing the same while quadding. It is completely asinine as well as dishonest to suggest that anyone in the history of EQ has ever "grouped" in this manner (with the obvious exception of PLing), much less that this sort of grouping arrangement is somehow ideal. The reason it is NOT done is very obvious: the player killing mobs off to the side of the group might as well be soloing and keeping all the XP for himself rather than sharing it with three other players. Further, said player offers NOTHING of value to the group otherwise if playing in this manner, and a Shaman playing in this manner brings no utility or synergy since he is endlessly canni dancing/Torporing/DoTing and has no time to slow, heal, tank, etc...

This latest argument of yours perfectly illustrates how you endlessly shift the goalposts and dishonestly argue that the Shaman is capable of performing 10 different group roles at the same time.

[Seducio]

Min/Maxing was figured out long before Green dropped.

This silly thread of opinion vs opinion is designed to never end.

If you get stuck in this thread realize you have better things to do with your time.