Hey Forsaken

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Ezalor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

> being so autistic you line-for-line parsed someone 100-page rant on an everquest forum to debate them

^^ Being so autistic that you don't have the attention span to read though a a handful of paragraphs. (shot attention span being an actual symptom of autism)

[Mistle]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can't or wont? I didn't feel like it :P

Suggests you want out of the argument and can't find any graceful way to do it.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nope its very clear that Q17 doesn't provide an answer for the situation... is q17 detailed elsewhere? Its not about disagreement its about simple reading comprehension. Nothing in Q17 says what you says it does. Saying otherwise is just a lie.

Other than the fact Q17 is the very reason Forsaken got bumped. Saying otherwise is just a lie.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I really don't understand how this is so hard for you. FE/BDA split was an anecdote not a point of reference for a ruling. Same goes for merging with another guild. Do you think that if Rampage merged into BDA that BDA would then be considered class C?

Yes, a merged Rampage/BDA would almost certainly be considered class C. This was mostly semantic bullshit and therefore I assume you're trying to back off of your "anecdotes" as any kind of supporting evidence, which makes sense considering how easily they were dismissed.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is different leadership.

The leadership of Forsaken may not be identical to the leadership of old TMO but it is close enough to be considered so. Players leading TMO now leading Forsaken, with no one from outside TMO in a leadership position. It is NOT different leadership.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How can you claim this guildbank information? You are operating on assumption not fact. DKP was wiped...seems is weak language indication you don't know what you are talking about. An appeal to the masses doesn't make your argument fact. I hope you realize this.

No appeal to the masses was made, but obviously your first year philosophy class was insufficient for YOU to realize this. Are you claiming there was no influence of TMO DKP on Forsaken's DKP? This is in direct opposition to what other people in Forsaken have said.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not a strawman

Yeah, it was. It was not the argument I made, yet you attacked it. Classical strawman, and another indication that you know how weak your argument is.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was following your logical path. This seems to indication that the problem with Forsaken is that they have class C things. Items/experience etc. It takes away from your argument which is why I pointed it out.

Incomplete and therefore incorrect and doubling down on the strawman.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Forsaken has different expectations because it is a class C guild composed of class C experienced and equipped players with a shared class C history raiding under a class C raid leader they have all played with and raided under before.

Yep. Shouldn't have excluded what the point was in order to focus on your strawman, because this is clear evidence of a guild that was considered class C. Reality trumps your theory once more.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why? What is the reasoning behind this?

Deflection. The reasoning has already been established, since it is the very core of why they were moved to class C. Think I haven't seen someone desperate try to bog down a debate before?

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How could I prove it... its an opinion. You don't seem to realize this. We both have opinions about how something should be handled and its based on a very unclear rule without any precedent. Is this the problem you are having?

It is more the problem you are having accepting that the other side of the argument has any support at all. Shall I go back into the thread for your dismissive replies to people trying to lead you to water? If I do need to bother to spend the time, will you apologize to each and every one of them for doing so if you're just now going to cry "we just all have different opinions man!" Otherwise there doesn't seem to be any point.


[QUOTE=Alarti0001;1935349]Now you are saying Forsaken was booted out of Class R because it was dominant?[/quote[

Strawman. Not what I said at all.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought it was a 30 day lockout thing? Pick your argument please.

It hasn't changed. You're just twisting as hard as you can.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Rogean is wrong opinion is easy to prove. There isn't a clear rule that accounted for this situation.

Oh there is, and it's pretty clear actually. I'm sorry he can't quite make it clear enough for YOU... it is becoming apparent that is going to be an impossible goal.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He made a decision based on a rule that says Guild Type C can't kill Guild Type R mobs unless they wait for 30 days.
The rule did not see if a portion of a Guild Type C guild make a completely new guild with new infrastructure they also can not kill Type R mobs for 30 days.

He will do so when that situation comes up, I am sure. This situation, of course, as people who can understand what happened already know, is not that situation, since it's not a completely new guild, as already proven.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The purpose of the rule is to prevent Class C guilds from taking dragonloots from Class R guilds. If this rule wasn't in place TMO or IB or Rampage etc would just kill your mobs. That wasn't what happened here. Forsaken is a new entity who had a desire to be in Class R until they can get their footing before entering Class C.

Except they weren't.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But your premises aren't all facts. Raid Leadership in TMO isn't the same as Leadership.

Evidence disagrees with you. All leaders of Forsaken are previous leaders of TMO.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Raid leaders are people who can be on and call the shots. They don't run the guild deal with the bank or administration etc etc. Anyone can be a raid leader if they know the encounter and arent afraid to bark orders. Sorry if this isn't clear to you.

Doesn't need to be clear to me. It's clear to Rogean. I agree with his reasoning. It's pretty solid. Yours isn't. It's based on false claims of "new guilds" and "different leaders".

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except it doesn't even if you claim so. The big hangup is the root of your argument that Q17 clearly covers this situation. Clearly it doesn't.

No, what happened in reality says clearly it DOES.

Think I'm wrong? I'm sure you'll get right on that petition to reverse the ruling. Let me know how that goes!

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which one of those matter to the argument at hand? Seems like none. Because you have opinions does nothing to make them matter concerning the subject.
Did they use TMO tagged characters to raid? Only one that might matter here.

Seems like all to me, and to Rogean. Sorry.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Considering that I probably know just a LITTLE bit more than you about TMO's guild bank... and TMO's leadership style... I would say you are posting your opinions from a place of comparative ignorance.

Your honesty is in doubt. You've been caught lying. If you were honest, you would admit there is a DKP influence and elements of TMO's assets moved over to Forsaken.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Mistle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Suggests you want out of the argument and can't find any graceful way to do it.

No suggests that I just posted colored text and not a quote. Why so derp?


Other than the fact Q17 is the very reason Forsaken got bumped. Saying otherwise is just a lie.

Nope Forsaken got bumped because Rogean said so


Yes, a merged Rampage/BDA would almost certainly be considered class C. This was mostly semantic bullshit and therefore I assume you're trying to back off of your "anecdotes" as any kind of supporting evidence, which makes sense considering how easily they were dismissed.

This is a difference of opinion and not a fact. Separate the two for your own well-being"]


The leadership of Forsaken may not be identical to the leadership of old TMO but it is close enough to be considered so. Players leading TMO now leading Forsaken, with no one from outside TMO in a leadership position. It is NOT different leadership.

Not Identical by definitions is Different. You are starting to get very very stupid

No appeal to the masses was made, but obviously your first year philosophy class was insufficient for YOU to realize this. Are you claiming there was no influence of TMO DKP on Forsaken's DKP? This is in direct opposition to what other people in Forsaken have said.

I'm claiming the DKP is different. Not that it would matter that much. Appeal to the masses occurred when you
Appeal to masses.. plain as day>>>>the argument put forward by Rogean and many people here is really straightforward and requires no contortions at all <<<<


Yeah, it was. It was not the argument I made, yet you attacked it. Classical strawman, and another indication that you know how weak your argument is.

Why was it in your statement then? TO distract?


Incomplete and therefore incorrect and doubling down on the strawman.




Yep. Shouldn't have excluded what the point was in order to focus on your strawman, because this is clear evidence of a guild that was considered class C. Reality trumps your theory once more.

Your reality isn't real


Deflection. The reasoning has already been established, since it is the very core of why they were moved to class C. Think I haven't seen someone desperate try to bog down a debate before?

Asking a question for you to clarify your answer is the exact opposite of deflection


It is more the problem you are having accepting that the other side of the argument has any support at all. Shall I go back into the thread for your dismissive replies to people trying to lead you to water? If I do need to bother to spend the time, will you apologize to each and every one of them for doing so if you're just now going to cry "we just all have different opinions man!" Otherwise there doesn't seem to be any point.

Appeal to the masses.. what a few or many people said doesn't matter unless they are correct. Christianity has 1billion+ followers for example.

Strawman. Not what I said at all.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 View Post
Did Forsaken unfairly dominate Class R? Nope

Forsaken won the race for every mob it went for, could do so with VP geared characters, under a raid leader it had followed for months or years, playing with players who had been playing together at that gear level for just as long. No class R guild can claim all this. Given Forsaken was immediately booted out of class R, your declaration that it did not is simply false.


Read what you write. It seems clear that you are saying my declaration was wrong which is evidenced by Forsaken getting booted out of class R. You are embarrassing yourself now.



Oh there is, and it's pretty clear actually. I'm sorry he can't quite make it clear enough for YOU... it is becoming apparent that is going to be an impossible goal.

Already detailed how to make it clear. Its very obviously not clear which is why there are plenty of people who thought it would have been fine to kill class R

He will do so when that situation comes up, I am sure. This situation, of course, as people who can understand what happened already know, is not that situation, since it's not a completely new guild, as already proven.'

Logical Fallacy claiming higher knowledge without demonstrating evidence



Except they weren't.




Evidence disagrees with you. All leaders of Forsaken are previous leaders of TMO.

Blatantly incorrect


Doesn't need to be clear to me. It's clear to Rogean. I agree with his reasoning. It's pretty solid. Yours isn't. It's based on false claims of "new guilds" and "different leaders".

DING DING DING... and you have given up

No, what happened in reality says clearly it DOES.

So because a punishment happened that means a rule is clear? Have you played on this server before? LMAO

Think I'm wrong? I'm sure you'll get right on that petition to reverse the ruling. Let me know how that goes!

I'm not a Forsaken member I won't be petitioning anything

Seems like all to me, and to Rogean. Sorry.

Logical Fallacy appeal to authority



Your honesty is in doubt. You've been caught lying. If you were honest, you would admit there is a DKP influence and elements of TMO's assets moved over to Forsaken.

how was I lying... you do understnad the definition of lying correct?Your intelligence is in doubt

[Big_Japan]

do you two have no shame? what would your families think if they could see this?

[Mistle]

I was socking anyways (mm Donals for me). Looks like Alarti is so desperate to get out of the argument he won't make it quotable. I guess that's a concession of all terms?

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Mistle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was socking anyways (mm Donals for me). Looks like Alarti is so desperate to get out of the argument he won't make it quotable. I guess that's a concession of all terms?

It would probably be much better for his health in the long run if he does concede.

[JayN]

Irony when a group of innocent nice guys leave the mean loot hungry jerks to onl

[JayN]

only be the same loot hungry jerks they were leaving

[Kushie]

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[JayN]

Forsaken way to bounce out away from the negative power hungry lootwhore bros!
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