Raid Suspension: The Mystical Order

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Furthermore, by pure accident, one of the class R guilds was killing a summoning mob during our CT engage. It made the fight extremely difficult and we just barely wiped. When CT spawns are guilds no longer allowed to damage trash or can we just keep a few mobs at 90% parked for when IB goes for a CT on repop?

That was my entire point. This ruling makes it ok for guilds to exploit what other guilds are doing to get them in trouble. We can simply walk into fear plane. Engage one summoning trash mob and keep it offtanked with 1 BP Cleric and wouldn't be in the wrong. Simply because we engaged that trash mob before another guild engaged CT. All tanks summoned andddd an easy wipe on the other guild while my guild camps out.

[JayN]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Furthermore, by pure accident, one of the class R guilds was killing a summoning mob during our CT engage. It made the fight extremely difficult and we just barely wiped. When CT spawns are guilds no longer allowed to damage trash or can we just keep a few mobs at 90% parked for when IB goes for a CT on repop?

exactly

[Lazie]

And to top that off..Once that other guild is done wiping to CT and he summons and kills me because I was only "Killing trash for the drops yo". Raid suspension for the other guild for training the zone and CT on me.

[Socratic]

The fact is that a very small percentage of the population (even within the class C guilds) really understand all the mechanics involved around pulling/training in these various zones. Staff has shown again and again that they don't know what they are talking about.

The idea that you are responsible for OTHER people aggroing your train is stupid, and highly exploitable.

Wake. The. Fuck. Up.

Let's say IB gets FTE on the next competitive Xygoz spawn, and to properly pull the dragon without killing themselves they actually do a trainup themselves (omg, really? yes! really! that's how it's done moron). Then let's say random TMO puller throws a hammer charge into a single wurm somewhere up by 4rac/2drakes and decides to "pull" that wurm to zone in for TMO to kill. The TMO puller aggros 1 mob, and runs to zone in, while their pulled wurm walks THE ONLY WAY IT FUCKING CAN right through the trainup by IB. Now once the TMO puller of the wurm gets to zone in they go ahead and have a bard and cleric buff them, transferring all that aggro, then they kill the wurm, and stand there like fucking morons at zone in.

Now you're telling me in the above situation it's IB's responsibility to keep their trainup mobs from coming back to zone in and attacking those idiots?

If you pull shit through someone else's controlled train then it's your own damn responsibility not to bring that shit to zone in and dump it on everyone.

Use your fucking head.

[Ele]

What happened to waiting outside while guild 1 took their attempt at clearing the zone or killing CT?

[Rais]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Furthermore, by pure accident, one of the class R guilds was killing a summoning mob during our CT engage. It made the fight extremely difficult and we just barely wiped. When CT spawns are guilds no longer allowed to damage trash or can we just keep a few mobs at 90% parked for when IB goes for a CT on repop?

And this is where I as a former staff member disagreed with how things are allowed. I personally don't think you should be allowed to kite fear en mass for cazic or draco. Then there wouldn't be any issues with trains. People would clear as much as they can in fear, (2+ guilds would clear it pretty fast or most of) and there would be next to no issues. Is it perfect? no Will it derail any chance of bard a or b fucking up and training the competing guild? Yes

If the guilds stay logged in when a guild engages cazic, then it's on them if they gain aggro. Some people like that idea, some don't. That's my personal feelings on that issue in fear.

If a guild is killing stuff that can summon in fear, and your guild wants to risk attacking cazic, then that's the risk. At worse case, you have one person get summoned before guild_001 zergs down cazic.

The bottom line has always been if you are aggro on mobs it is your responsibility for what they do if you lose/keep aggro. This isn't me being hard headed, it is how the rules are stated. It is your choice of risk vs reward to kite/train shit. It has always been a rule not to kite/train shit, but Sirken deems it not a big deal and turns a blind eye to it cause "shit happens". Then shit like this happens and everyone loses their mind and someone gets punished, and corruption is claimed.

Remove the aspect of training shit around, and you remove the risk of being punished for how you are bending the rules.

You have to remember the rules are there to prevent this stuff from happening. Inconsistency with rulings, and punishments ( yes, I agree with tmo that they got fucked on that, compared to IB's one dragon suspension) are an issue. It has been an issue since Amelinda was here. I know it's a shocker, but I never had any final decision about how long any guild's suspension should be.

I was always in favor of one week, and working up adding a week after each offense. It can be harsh when you get to the point you are constantly breaking rules, but it will also nudge the guilds back and remove the problem causers who earn guild suspensions.

Sirken and Deru aren't all mighty and do make mistakes. In the end they try and give an environment to try and make it so everyone can enjoy the server, and not be fucked over because someone/guild is breaking rules causing deaths/wipes. When they become nice such as allowing guilds in fear/vp to train shit around by turning a blind eye, it gives the illusion saying it's ok to do and gives everyone a free pass. Until the hammer falls because another guild caused the other to wipe. Then everyone loses their fucking minds. Then you end up in this situation with 50000 word essays.

[Rais]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What happened to waiting outside while guild 1 took their attempt at clearing the zone or killing CT?

Was never on this server that I recall. On live my server always had the self rule of whoever broke fear, earned fear. I am sure others didn't play that way.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If a guild is killing stuff that can summon in fear, and your guild wants to risk attacking cazic, then that's the risk. At worse case, you have one person get summoned before guild_001 zergs down cazic.

1 trash mob summoned all our tanks and made Cazic run across the zone to that trash mob on the last repop CT. It caused a wipe with Cazic at 2%. It was funny to watch it happen in retrospect. But with this ruling that was handed down by Sirken and Derubel it makes it a viable option to kill another guild and have the other guild at fault for their deaths and the deaths of people that were killing the trash mob.

[Socratic]

You really don't get it.

The bottom line has always been if you are aggro on mobs it is your responsibility for what they do if you lose/keep aggro.

How about if you get aggro on my mobs it's your responsibility for what that aggro causes? Is that hard? If I pull a mob through the middle of your pull while you're trying to.... let's say... fd split something, are you responsible when it all kills me?

Your "bottom line" is stupid, and highly exploitable. How about I just watch for someone to aggro something and then I buff them, and run off to where a bunch of people are hanging out. Can I blame you for "not controlling your mobs"?

The truth is that EVERYONE must be responsible for their aggro, whether they were the player with initial aggro or not, otherwise you simply create a system where doing stupid things benefits you because the blame falls to someone else. Your half-whit ruling principle makes it possible to get nearly everyone who plays correctly suspended in favor of someone acting stupid and malicious.

[TMBLOW]

heres a thought:

instead of training every GD mob that exists maybe clear some stuff once in a while....

you know....like what was intended.