Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

https://youtu.be/jG1Aat1XdbI - This is a video of me grouping with a 54 Necro and a 56 Enchanter, both of whom are charming pets. These two players are people I met today, and we are not coordinating over discord. This is an example of a pickup group.

In the description of the video you should find the logs. In this play session, we kill 77 mobs, and I cast Ice Strike 76 times, and used JBB once instead. The average kill speed is around 40 seconds per mob.

It is almost like you could create a solo video https://youtu.be/5XwiGKTuu2E and translate that DPS in to a group scenario. X Ice Strikes per average encounter of Y seconds results in Z DPS per fight on average.

That is the thing about averages. Some fights you may cast Ice Strike multiple times, some fights you don't cast it at all, but the average smooths this out.

I am really not sure why this wasn't obvious already, or why it needed hundreds of pages of trolling. The idea that you "cannot use solo videos for group scenarios" is debunked.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://youtu.be/jG1Aat1XdbI - This is a video of me grouping with a 54 Necro and a 56 Enchanter, both of whom are charming pets. These two players are people I met today, and we are not coordinating over discord. This is an example of a pickup group.

In the description of the video you should find the logs. In this play session, we kill 77 mobs, and I cast Ice Strike 76 times, and used JBB once instead. The average kill speed is around 40 seconds per mob.

It is almost like you could create a solo video https://youtu.be/5XwiGKTuu2E and translate that DPS in to a group scenario. X Ice Strikes per average encounter of Y seconds results in Z DPS per fight on average.

That is the thing about averages. Some fights you may cast Ice Strike multiple times, some fights you don't cast it at all, but the average smooths this out.

I am really not sure why this wasn't obvious already, or why it needed hundreds of pages of trolling. The idea that you "cannot use solo videos for group scenarios" is debunked.

So what you’ve basically told us is that you did 15 dps in this group. Why even bother with ice strike? Just use jbb. Ice strike isn’t for static dps. It’s for burning a mob. You just caused more work for yourself to make up that mana Vs just clicking jbb.

Solo has nothing to do with group. In solo you can also regen mana much quicker since you aren’t moving around as much and shammys need to be stationary to regen mana unlike a necromancer or enchanter.

Unfortunately you just spent 2 hours to prove essentially what we already know - shamans put out shit dps in a fast kill grouped scenario. Their best feature is torpor tanking. Problem with this is that doesn’t work well on mobs that are difficult or impossible to slow. Which is why enchanters prefer clerics instead.

So you’ve just confirmed what we already know. Swap in a cleric and add a mage or another enc for more dps.

Edit: also mobs dieing in 40 seconds means your epic will do like 5-6 dps per mob. And if you charge ahead trying to root more mobs, you will die and there will be no cleric to rez you and the the Necro will be pissed that they had to burn an EE to rez your greedy self. But had you tried to do that it would have at least had some more relevance to our discussion, lol.

Just so much disconnect between this video and this entire thread, lol. Nice try though!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what you’ve basically told us is that you did 15 dps in this group. Why even bother with ice strike? Just use jbb. Ice strike isn’t for static dps. It’s for burning a mob. You just caused more work for yourself to make up that mana Vs just clicking jbb.

Solo has nothing to do with group. In solo you can also regen mana much quicker since you aren’t moving around as much and shammys need to be stationary to regen mana unlike a necromancer or enchanter.

Unfortunately you just spent 2 hours to prove essentially what we already know - shamans put out shit dps in a fast kill grouped scenario. Their best feature is torpor tanking. Problem with this is that doesn’t work well on mobs that are difficult or impossible to slow. Which is why enchanters prefer clerics instead.

So you’ve just confirmed what we already know. Swap in a cleric and add a mage or another enc for more dps.

Edit: also mobs dieing in 40 seconds means your epic will do like 5-6 dps per mob. And if you charge ahead trying to root more mobs, you will die and there will be no cleric to rez you and the the Necro will be pissed that they had to burn an EE to rez your greedy self. But had you tried to do that it would have at least had some more relevance to our discussion, lol.

Just so much disconnect between this video and this entire thread, lol. Nice try though!

I proved that you can use solo videos to show group DPS scenarios. Which you said was impossible, and was the cause of hundreds of pages of trolling. If you don't understand basic DPS calculations, maybe you should pause before assuming other things[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Also, I had a pet for a good chunk of the video, so it would be 15 DPS + Pet DPS, so around 30 DPS plus all of the utility and tanking.

You are also saying nothing about utility vs. DPS. What evidence to you have to show those classes would have given us more kills per hour?

Now that I provided group evidence, you are doing exactly what I said you would do, which is make excuses as to why the video doesn't fit whatever you think you are trying to argue. It was nonsense hundreds of pages ago, and still is nonsense.

You need to provide evidence for your claims now. No more excuses.

[Lampolo]

Why HS west?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Lampolo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why HS west?

Why not HS West? I was doing a pickup group, so finding people is the hard part. I happened to find those players in HS. They were great btw, shout out to them for a great group!

[Vexenu]

Your DPS in that video is absolutely terrible. You're pulling, slowing, tanking and healing while casting the occasional nuke.

This is literally what everyone has been telling you for the past 400+ pages: Shamans are great at doing the things you did in that video, and you do a commendable job playing efficiently. But they are not a group DPS class. Thank you for providing evidence toward that fact.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your DPS in that video is absolutely terrible. You're pulling, slowing, tanking and healing while casting the occasional nuke.

This is literally what everyone has been telling you for the past 400+ pages: Shamans are great at doing the things you did in that video, and you do a commendable job playing efficiently. But they are not a group DPS class. Thank you for providing evidence toward that fact.

Thanks for the compliment!

You need to realize I was playing with two players who weren't as experienced, and not even level 60. I am not complaining either, they did great! It was a really fun group.

For context, I was keeping an Enchanter alive when they didn't use Rune at all, or have Bedlam. Of course my DPS is going to be lower. This is what I was saying by group conditions changing things. The Enchanter and Necromancer were doing lower DPS as well, due to being lower level. They had a bunch of charm breaks. That doesn't mean Charm DPS is bad.

And you keep misunderstanding my arguments. I didn't say Shamans were a group DPS class. I said they do decent enough DPS in an efficient group, and can increase DPS with root/rotting if the group is just XPing. The utility a Shaman brings to the group is non-trivial, as I demonstrated in the video. Simply bringing more DPS is not always the answer to an efficient group.

As for why I chose to use Ice Strike, it is because I wanted to prove the point that my previous DPS video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XwiGKTuu2E was valid. It used Ice Strike as the example. This rebuts the claim that solo videos cannot be used to show how DPS works in a grouping scenario. This shows that the people who were trolling for 100s of pages did so for no reason.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for the compliment!
And you keep misunderstanding my arguments. I didn't say Shamans were a group DPS class. I said they do decent enough DPS in an efficient group, and can increase DPS with root/rotting if the group is just XPing. The utility a Shaman brings to the group is non-trivial. Simply bringing more DPS is not always the answer to an efficient group.

For a large portion of this thread you were claiming that a Shaman could out-DPS a Mage in a 4 man, all-caster/priest group (as per the title of the thread).

But as your very own video clearly shows, a Shaman cannot come close to putting out Mage DPS because he is too busy doing all the other things a Shaman has to do in order to be efficient and bring value to the group: slow, Torpor, canni, spot heal, malo, and in this case, tank and pull.

Again, no one is saying that Shamans are not a powerful class, and that they do not add value and utility to certain group compositions (as you did in this trio). But these are simple facts:

1) Shamans are not a group DPS class, and will never out-DPS a Mage on group content
2) Shamans, while a powerful class in their own right, do not fit into every group composition, and become largely redundant in the presence of an Enchanter/Cleric duo that does not benefit from the Shaman's unique strength of combining slows, heals, and slow/steady DPS in one package

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For a large portion of this thread you were claiming that a Shaman could out-DPS a Mage in a 4 man, all-caster/priest group (as per the title of the thread).

But as your very own video clearly shows, a Shaman cannot come close to putting out Mage DPS because he is too busy doing all the other things a Shaman has to do in order to be efficient and bring value to the group: slow, Torpor, canni, spot heal, malo, and in this case, tank and pull.

Again, no one is saying that Shamans are not a powerful class, and that they do not add value and utility to certain group compositions (as you did in this trio). But these are simple facts:

1) Shamans are not a group DPS class, and will never out-DPS a Mage on group content
2) Shamans, while a powerful class in their own right, do not fit into every group composition, and become largely redundant in the presence of an Enchanter/Cleric duo that does not benefit from the Shaman's unique strength of combining slows, heals, and slow/steady DPS in one package

Please show me specific examples of what I said and we can talk about it. You are probably thinking of my root/rotting examples, not single target examples. A Shaman can out-DPS a Mage when root/rotting. Shamans generally cannot out-DPS a Mage when fighting a single target.

Unfortunately people put so many strawmen in this thread it is hard to tell if you misread my argument, or read someone else's strawman.

And again, you have no evidence to suggest a Shaman cannot perform very well with an Enchanter instead of a Cleric. I am the only person providing evidence here. You are just assuming Cleric is better basically. Shaman/Enchanter/Monk is a powerful trio for example.

[Ripqozko]

This is why VQ failed, you have a guild full of DSM