Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don’t enchanters have a lot of cripple type spells that lower target str/agi/ac?

Could these realistically be in a spell bar when grouping with a magician? Would they noticeably impact the dps for magician pets?

Do encs have similar synergies to make shaman dps proportionally more improved too? Especially considering doggo basically has cripple advantage already built in (the enchanter wouldn’t be able to make the same improvement a second time)?

Shamans and Enchanters get Cripple. Sadly it's not worth casting for the most part on solo/group mobs. It works best on raid mobs, or mobs that proc something. The -DEX can reduce proc rate.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shamans and Enchanters get Cripple. Sadly it's not worth casting for the most part on solo/group mobs. It works best on raid mobs, or mobs that proc something. The -DEX can reduce proc rate.

I noticed you have responded to a post that was posted AFTER my below post; I assume you have not responded to/answered this because your only option would appear to be - outright - concession (as I anticipated):

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If DPS captured/performed by a solo player will be the same as DPS captured/performed by a player in a group who is actively grouped with 3 others (not solo), please elaborate why you mentioned (and what you meant when you mentioned) "variables out of your control" and "once you add in outside variables, that changes the DPS equation" in regards to group DPS performance in the below - direct - Quotes?

I anticipate you will not respond/answer this question, because your only option would appear to be - outright - concession.

[7thGate]

I feel like the Shaman contribution to an XP group has a problem in that Shamans get much more efficient in several ways at 60, but you also don't really XP at 60.

I actually suspect that at 60, a Shaman could potentially outdps a Mage in an grinding group, depending on context and how you're structuring the fights. You get a few things that are hard to quantify from this.

--The shaman can tank with Torpor which lets you turn the mobs and prevent riposte/dodge/parry effects. This can be a +10% or so DPS from the charm pets. It can also make charming a summoning pet much safer if that's an option for what you're doing.
--A shaman can keep Avatar up on the two charm pets. Avatar's effect is generally noticeable but hard to directly quantify because of the natural variance in DPS and because it gets lumped in with the rest of the melee damage. As a rogue I usually get 10-15 dps boost from Avatar, I would expect a similar magnitude on a charmed pet.
--Shamans do get their own pet which, while not great, isn't nothing.

I suspect Avataring two charm pets closes the gap in DPS between shaman and mage pets, but it does cost plat unless you actually have Primal Avatar.

However, to actually pull significantly ahead, you would need to find a camp that has a lot of properties that favor shaman, since you probably also need to leverage Spear of Fate and the mana efficiency of Pox of Bertoxxulous.

If you really want to find a situation where a Shaman can outdps a mage, I would look at parsing the Blam stick camp with this group comp and kill 2 halflings at once continually. You can't run out of mobs, they're tough enough that if you engage them in pairs you will get the full 2 minute duration for each kill to allow maximum DoT DPS, they summon so the shaman tanking is helpful for managing pet breaks, and Torpor relieves pressure on the cleric to allow for smoother grinding for a longer time.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I feel like the Shaman contribution to an XP group has a problem in that Shamans get much more efficient in several ways at 60, but you also don't really XP at 60.

I actually suspect that at 60, a Shaman could potentially outdps a Mage in an grinding group, depending on context and how you're structuring the fights. You get a few things that are hard to quantify from this.

--The shaman can tank with Torpor which lets you turn the mobs and prevent riposte/dodge/parry effects. This can be a +10% or so DPS from the charm pets. It can also make charming a summoning pet much safer if that's an option for what you're doing.
--A shaman can keep Avatar up on the two charm pets. Avatar's effect is generally noticeable but hard to directly quantify because of the natural variance in DPS and because it gets lumped in with the rest of the melee damage. As a rogue I usually get 10-15 dps boost from Avatar, I would expect a similar magnitude on a charmed pet.
--Shamans do get their own pet which, while not great, isn't nothing.

I suspect Avataring two charm pets closes the gap in DPS between shaman and mage pets, but it does cost plat unless you actually have Primal Avatar.

However, to actually pull significantly ahead, you would need to find a camp that has a lot of properties that favor shaman, since you probably also need to leverage Spear of Fate and the mana efficiency of Pox of Bertoxxulous.

If you really want to find a situation where a Shaman can outdps a mage, I would look at parsing the Blam stick camp with this group comp and kill 2 halflings at once continually. You can't run out of mobs, they're tough enough that if you engage them in pairs you will get the full 2 minute duration for each kill to allow maximum DoT DPS, they summon so the shaman tanking is helpful for managing pet breaks, and Torpor relieves pressure on the cleric to allow for smoother grinding for a longer time.

If you’re going to turn mobs though, you could then just argue get a Necro. With slow and gear they can tank just fine. Better dots, taps, and much better pet. You also get fd snare and a da puller. Not to mention emergency fd for crs. Cleric can easily keep them up when slowed since they won’t be healing pets at that point.

[7thGate]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you’re going to turn mobs though, you could then just argue get a Necro. With slow and gear they can tank just fine. Better dots, taps, and much better pet. You also get fd snare and a da puller. Not to mention emergency fd for crs. Cleric can easily keep them up when slowed since they won’t be healing pets at that point.

Necromancers bring a lot of nice things, but there are benefits from the Shaman as well.

Torpor is a lot more efficient than tapping for healing. Avatar helps close the pet quality gap, and shamans are going to be significantly tougher with equivalent gearing. You don't have some of the other utlitity, but you get Malo/Malosini to help slow hard targets quickly and reduce the frequency of pet breaks. DoTs are fairly equivalent betweem the two.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you’re going to turn mobs though, you could then just argue get a Necro. With slow and gear they can tank just fine. Better dots, taps, and much better pet. You also get fd snare and a da puller. Not to mention emergency fd for crs. Cleric can easily keep them up when slowed since they won’t be healing pets at that point.

A Shaman is way tankier than a Necromancer with Torpor + Slow. With Cannibalize they can sustain the tank much longer too, whereas a Necromancer is going to run out of mana for taps. Lich is a great spell, but it isn't as good as Torpor, and it hurts your HP regen while tanking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPxeOVuX0G8 - A Necromancer is not tanking Ionat for 20 minutes straight with taps.

7thGate brings up some good points with Avatar on Charmed pets as well, I honestly never though of that before. Just bring some emerald stacks and double avatar. Since this thread has started to include clearing ST trash, the Shaman will probably have Primal Avatar, since they are already ST keyed.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A Shaman is way tankier than a Necromancer with Torpor + Slow. With Cannibalize they can sustain the tank much longer too, whereas a Necromancer is going to run out of mana for taps. Lich is a great spell, but it isn't as good as Torpor, and it hurts your HP regen while tanking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPxeOVuX0G8 - A Necromancer is not tanking Ionat for 20 minutes straight with taps.

7thGate brings up some good points with Avatar on Charmed pets as well, I honestly never though of that before. Just bring some emerald stacks and double avatar. Since this thread has started to include clearing ST trash, the Shaman will probably have Primal Avatar, since they are already ST keyed.

Stop using solo videos. Seriously, just fucking stop. Nobody except you believes solo = group, even after you've contradicted yourself multiple times. You aren't adding anything to this discussion anymore.

This trivial WW dragon will be dead long before the necro, cleric, or 2 enchanters goes oom. And it will also be slowed.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Stop using solo videos. Seriously, just fucking stop.

This trivial WW dragon will be dead long before the necro, cleric, or 2 enchanters goes oom. And it will also be slowed.

Again, you really don't understand the game lol. Stop thinking mob stats will change in group vs. solo play. The amount of DPS the Dragon is doing is not going to change, only the duration of the fight changes.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you really don't understand the game lol. Stop thinking mob stats will change in group vs. solo play. The amount of DPS is not going to change, just the duration of the fight.

It will 100% change. Literally nobody but you believes this. You don't understand the game.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It will 100% change. Literally nobody but you believes this. You don't understand the game.

You are admitting you think mob stats change in group vs. solo play?

The thing that changes is the duration of the fight, NOT the DPS of the mob. If a WW Dragon is doing 50 DPS, it will do 50 DPS every second for 20 minutes, or 50 DPS every second for 5 minutes.

If you fight 4 WW Dragons at 5 minutes each, you have taken the SAME damage as that solo video.

It's basic math.