Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah scroll back to pages 20-24 and see where I actually contributed some actual data, not napkin math.

This is not napkin math. In Everquest players have a fixed amount of Mana/time to do things. The numbers I showed are indeed the average based on those numbers, if you don't get twitched. You can easily math out maximum average DPS assuming perfect conditions. In reality the numbers are lower for both classes due to other factors, but you can see the average difference.

I also showed real data by the way. But for some reason you think your data is somehow real while mine isn't. I still haven't figured out the logic there[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your data is trash. You continually post numbers and math and completely disregard the fact that nobody plays perfectly optimally all the time. Especially during extended grind sessions. Shit doesn't always work out exactly like you calculated on your spreadsheet. Playing a shaman optimally for long periods is an exhausting button mashing clusterfuck. I know from experience. Mages can really completely phone it in and still be like 90% effective with almost zero effort. You can't math this factor no matter how hard you try. There's a number of other factors you also can't really account for with your compulsive need to math everything out. You have the most astounding bias and hardheadedness of anyone I've ever seen on this forum and that is TRULY an impressive feat. Like I'm not even trolling when I say that. I've had plenty of arguments on these forums with shit for brains people with idiotic ideas but you absolutely take the cake sir.

Using the lazy player argument works against Mages too. If a Mage is being lazy, they will forget to /pet attack, forget to re-apply DS, forget to nuke, etc. Of course lazy players will DPS lower, but that is irrelevant to what the classes can do when played normally hehe.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Using the lazy player argument works against Mages too. If a Mage is being lazy, they will forget to /pet attack, forget to re-apply DS, forget to nuke, etc. Of course lazy players will DPS lower, but that is irrelevant to what the classes can do when played normally hehe.

Implying it takes the same amount of effort to play a mage as it does to play a shaman optimally in an avg xp group situation might be the most idiotic thing you've said so far. Mages have 1 buff every 15 min to worry about and it only needs to be applied to 1 target. You can literally macro /pet attack and a couple nukes (with pauses) to 1 literal button press. Depending on the group DPS output and mob HP you can probably often get away with 1 button press per mob. 2-3 at worst. Meanwhile your shaman has 3+ buffs that should be applied to the entire group at all times. You're talking about pox/bane/epic click/jbb just to do less damage than the 1 button mage. This isn't even accounting for canni dance spam to recover the mana for the next mob as you have repeated like 400 times in this thread. You also have 2 debuffs to the mage's 1.

You're fucking high if you think a lazy mage and a lazy shaman will be equally affected by laziness

[Troxx]

Yes that’s what this thread needs … some YouTube videos.

[PlsNoBan]

Your data is trash. You continually post numbers and math and completely disregard the fact that nobody plays perfectly optimally all the time. Especially during extended grind sessions. Shit doesn't always work out exactly like you calculated on your spreadsheet. Playing a shaman optimally for long periods is an exhausting button mashing clusterfuck. I know from experience. Mages can really completely phone it in and still be like 90% effective with almost zero effort. You can't math this factor no matter how hard you try. There's a number of other factors you also can't really account for with your compulsive need to math everything out. You have the most astounding bias and hardheadedness of anyone I've ever seen on this forum and that is TRULY an impressive feat. Like I'm not even trolling when I say that. I've had plenty of arguments on these forums with shit for brains people with idiotic ideas but you absolutely take the cake sir.

[Troxx]

Mage is by far the laziest class I’ve played in eq. It’s so relaxing after 60 levels of bard, shaman, necro, etc. Heck it’s even easier than warrior (cause they actually do have to move around).

It’s pet attack and click the same nuke as often as mana allows. Oh … and every 15 minutes you re-haste your pet and periodically cast a damage shield.

It takes about as close to zero effort to maximize your potential compared to any other class … all while putting out top tier dps in groups.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mage is by far the laziest class I’ve played in eq. It’s so relaxing after 60 levels of bard, shaman, necro, etc. Heck it’s even easier than warrior (cause they actually do have to move around).

It’s pet attack and click the same nuke as often as mana allows. Oh … and every 15 minutes you re-haste your pet and periodically cast a damage shield.

It takes about as close to zero effort to maximize your potential compared to any other class.

That's irrelevant to the topic at hand. It doesn't matter which class is easier or harder.

The logic doesn't make sense. Group A wants to get a Mage because they care about DPS (kill speed efficiency). At the same time, Group A is fine with their players being lazy and not DPSing well (which lowers kill speed efficiency).

You can't have it both ways. You can't argue that a group wants a Mage for DPS, but doesn't mind the Mage and other group members slacking off and lowering DPS lol.

Better to get a Shaman at that point, because they need to pay attention more. They aren't AFKing and not /pet attacking, nuking, or buffing because they are watching Netflix.

[Troxx]

Mage puts out top tier dps while slacking off. Their BASELINE is slacking off and being lazy. It’s not like trying harder and being more busy increases mage potential. Once you have your max summon pet up, you’re literally just clicking pet attack, your best nuke, and managing 2 medium duration buffs on 2 targets (your pet and the tank).

Difference between a lazy mage doing the bare minimum and a “omg trying so hard mage”?

Practically zero unless you’re gonna be doing fancy shit that requires CoTH tricks.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mage puts out top tier dps while slacking off. Their BASELINE is slacking off and being lazy. It’s not like trying harder and being more busy increases mage potential. Once you have your max summon pet up, you’re literally just clicking pet attack, your best nuke, and managing 2 medium duration buffs on 2 targets (your pet and the tank).

Difference between a lazy mage doing the bare minimum and a “omg trying so hard mage”?

Practically zero.

It's irrelevant, because the Shaman will be playing normally too.

If you are going to say the Mage is lazy, that means they are not /pet attacking, nuking, and/or buffing at the normal rate. You don't get to tilt the scales just because you like Mages hehe.

[Troxx]

It’s cool though. Enjoy your nonstop click fest trying to pretend a shaman is good dps. The mage will sit back giggling and doing twice your damage while checking their Facebook page.

Shamans aren’t a group dps class. Excellent healers/support. Excellent soloers (and capable of plowing down some damage in that role. Fantastic duo/trio toons.

But they aren’t an effective choice for doing dps in fast paced groups. They are mediocre at best and outclasses by every melee. Hell my paladin with NToV spear will be doing measurably more dps than your shaman.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s cool though. Enjoy your nonstop click fest trying to pretend a shaman is good dps. The mage will sit back giggling and doing twice your damage while checking their Facebook page.

Shamans aren’t a group dps class. Excellent healers/support. Excellent soloers (and capable of plowing down some damage in that role. Fantastic duo/trio toons.

But they aren’t an effective choice for doing dps in groups.

The data shows otherwise. They can do both. As stated many times before, a Mages DPS isn't necessary in a 2x Enchanter group to begin with, which is why a Shaman's utility is preferred. If your Enchanters are doing 400 DPS, you are killing a mob with 12k HP in 30 seconds. A Mages 30 DPS difference compared to a Shaman would increase the kill speed by 2 seconds. That's not worth losing all of the utility a Shaman has to offer.