Shocking leaked image shows spirit of compromise on p99 in A/A's absence!

[arsenalpow]

Consider Phinny. Scheduled raiding has been a blessing.

[Baler]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Consider Phinny. Scheduled raiding has been a blessing.

go fuck yourself and stop posting on P99 forums. You don't play here because Core BDA broke the P99 server rules. Your kind are not really welcome around here.
Get over yourself and your p99 addiction shit head.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Triiz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If this was done, wouldn't the new server be for the neckbeards? If yesterday showed anything it's that the neckbeards are a very small minority of the would be raiding population.

This guy really hates neckbeards for being just a "bystander".

The problem is guilds dont want to slowly progress. They want everything bc they know they "could kill it" but when it comes to taking down a raid boss while others are contesting, all bets are off and they fold unwilling to try.

There are 1 hr locks on mobs - each time you secure one and suceed you gain a little bit of progress and knowledge but rather than focusing on specific targets to continually upwards progress, you kill a bit of this and that and feel you deserve that experience any time you like without putting in the effort to improve and grow.

Nemce will remember me making these gripes years ago in Class R forums-we lose sight of the significance of the carrot when the stick is snapped in two and a short stub is handed over with a carrot in trex arms reach.

[Triiz]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This guy really hates neckbeards for being just a "bystander".

This may come as a shock to you, but literally pretty much every non-neckbeard hates neckbeards. It's hardly a term of endearment.

And yes I'm a bystander as in I refuse to participate in the raid scene in the state that it's been since I began playing p99. I hold out hope that the raiding scene will change and the majority will win the day, thus I am rooting for the casuals. If it doesn't change, that's fine too it's Nillbog's server.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Triiz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This may come as a shock to you, but literally pretty much every non-neckbeard hates neckbeards. It's hardly a term of endearment.

And yes I'm a bystander as in I refuse to participate in the raid scene in the state that it's been since I began playing p99. I hold out hope that the raiding scene will change and the majority will win the day, thus I am rooting for the casuals. If it doesn't change, that's fine too it's Nillbog's server.

This may come as a shock to you but even within the 'neckbeard' guilds there are actually probably more casual players than you would ever imagine.

The difference comes ( as we all know ) is whether there is a handful of people within the guild willing to do all the crazy socking/fteing/tracking etc that the raid scene meta has turned into. Point being, the core of the vast majority of guilds here are very much casual by nature.

The hardcore guilds were just built to handle the demands of a batphone raid any time of the day ( over time, see carrot/stick analogy ). Granted some hours of the day are easier to do this than others but that's some of the fun - you literally never know who is logging in and what kind of raid force make up you may have. This is why alts are geared etc etc etc etc.

Point being, Rome wasn't built in a day. I saw hundreds of Everquest raiders log on for now nearly Day 2 of hours upon hours of straight raiding. I find it hard to believe, esp now when alliances span most active guilds and around the globe, that there couldnt be methods to play within the rules that are established for FTE. I get Chest's point, no one wants to make Everquest their job and that's how the hardcores butter their bread. Sure, casuals can progress but at what cost he will argue. My argument though is the structure is there for very cushiony progression and frequent casual contesting of any spawn in the game - you just have to CONTROL YOURSELF.

This has always been a major issue and something that kept Taken out of class C for so long way back when. Its that self control that so many raiders lack makes progress feel unobtainable bc guilds view their success on uncontested kills as a doctrine to have those experiences over and over again without the effort. Rather than enjoying the climb up the mountain, we want to take the elevator to the top ( it is a 18 year old mountain after all, I was already up it a few times in my youth ). There is nothing stopping guilds from focusing on small aspects of the contested target experience while gaining the skills needed to beat A/A to anything out there. Once you get yellow text on a mob - its yours for an hour. Ignore the shit happening around you and focus on getting that mob into camp, and if thats the issue that prevents you from succeeding well you spend time honing on how to do ABC better for the next time. A/A did not appear overnight- but that's whats great about classic EQ, you build your empire. If A/A were to poof suddenly, there would just simply be a new alpha dog on the top of the food chain.

Which brings us to the core issue - what is next? Once you killed something in hardcore land, the primary objective becomes 'how can we kill this faster' and 'with less people'. That is where the focus for up and coming guilds should be ( especially within their own individual structures ) rather than focusing on how to get mobs rotated to them more often. Yes Velious has been out a year now and not going anywhere but does that mean you just flip the switch to rotate everything? Rotations are sloppy and not every entity should belong in them leading to eventual Class R forum arguments about allotted time and protocols. There will always always always be rulelawyers focused on these mobs - rotations will not get rid of skype chats agreements.

Alas, all this has been an issue from the beginning of time on this server and rule changes always seem to be something that is inevitable when enough people speak out.

/soapbox hehe

[bigjerry]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This may come as a shock to you but even within the 'neckbeard' guilds there are actually probably more casual players than you would ever imagine.

The difference comes ( as we all know ) is whether there is a handful of people within the guild willing to do all the crazy socking/fteing/tracking etc that the raid scene meta has turned into. Point being, the core of the vast majority of guilds here are very much casual by nature.

The hardcore guilds were just built to handle the demands of a batphone raid any time of the day ( over time, see carrot/stick analogy ). Granted some hours of the day are easier to do this than others but that's some of the fun - you literally never know who is logging in and what kind of raid force make up you may have. This is why alts are geared etc etc etc etc.

Point being, Rome wasn't built in a day. I saw hundreds of Everquest raiders log on for now nearly Day 2 of hours upon hours of straight raiding. I find it hard to believe, esp now when alliances span most active guilds and around the globe, that there couldnt be methods to play within the rules that are established for FTE. I get Chest's point, no one wants to make Everquest their job and that's how the hardcores butter their bread. Sure, casuals can progress but at what cost he will argue. My argument though is the structure is there for very cushiony progression and frequent casual contesting of any spawn in the game - you just have to CONTROL YOURSELF.

This has always been a major issue and something that kept Taken out of class C for so long way back when. Its that self control that so many raiders lack makes progress feel unobtainable bc guilds view their success on uncontested kills as a doctrine to have those experiences over and over again without the effort. Rather than enjoying the climb up the mountain, we want to take the elevator to the top ( it is a 18 year old mountain after all, I was already up it a few times in my youth ). There is nothing stopping guilds from focusing on small aspects of the contested target experience while gaining the skills needed to beat A/A to anything out there. Once you get yellow text on a mob - its yours for an hour. Ignore the shit happening around you and focus on getting that mob into camp, and if thats the issue that prevents you from succeeding well you spend time honing on how to do ABC better for the next time. A/A did not appear overnight- but that's whats great about classic EQ, you build your empire. If A/A were to poof suddenly, there would just simply be a new alpha dog on the top of the food chain.

Which brings us to the core issue - what is next? Once you killed something in hardcore land, the primary objective becomes 'how can we kill this faster' and 'with less people'. That is where the focus for up and coming guilds should be ( especially within their own individual structures ) rather than focusing on how to get mobs rotated to them more often. Yes Velious has been out a year now and not going anywhere but does that mean you just flip the switch to rotate everything? Rotations are sloppy and not every entity should belong in them leading to eventual Class R forum arguments about allotted time and protocols. There will always always always be rulelawyers focused on these mobs - rotations will not get rid of skype chats agreements.

Alas, all this has been an issue from the beginning of time on this server and rule changes always seem to be something that is inevitable when enough people speak out.

/soapbox hehe

smart post thank you!

[EdTuBrutus]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The difference comes ( as we all know ) is whether there is a handful of people within the guild willing to do all the crazy socking/fteing/tracking etc that the raid scene meta has turned into. Point being, the core of the vast majority of guilds here are very much casual by nature.

But that just emphasises the point even more.

It's not that P99's entertainment value is being destroyed for 2500 people by 250. It's that perhaps 25 people destroy the entertainment for 2700. I have a very strong feeling that most people even in A/A would prefer to be able to raid based on scheduled raids during a guild's peak time without needing to drop everything to raid at a moment's notice.

Scarcity in Everquest was always its biggest failing. It doesn't take "skill" it doesn't take "ability". It requires ridiculous investments of time by a tiny number of people who destroy the enjoyment of thousands of others AND GET THEIR ROCKS OFF that those thousands of others have their fun taken away.

EQ created scarcity because they thought it was a viable long term business model that would keep people playing. We know today, from HUNDREDS of games that scarcity does NOT keep people playing, scarcity drives people away, the majority of people, while playing into the anti-social, mentally deficient needs of a tiny, tiny minority.

EQ was relatively popular in its day because it was the only viable PvE MMORPG. It had literally no competition. To a lot of people, they want to recapture that look and feel. I doubt they want to recapture the frustration and idiocy of bad design decisions. The instant a better PvE game appeared, it had 20 times the subscribers of EQ at its peak, within 12 months.

[Andos]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The difference comes ( as we all know ) is whether there is a handful of people within the guild willing to do all the crazy socking/fteing/tracking etc that the raid scene meta has turned into.

If A/A were to poof suddenly, there would just simply be a new alpha dog on the top of the food chain.

You've opined frequently that everyone has their chance to go race for FTE on mobs but they choose not to devote the time to it. You can't at the same time say if the two groups and their players were to suddenly poof that all of a sudden a new group would come in and be willing to waste their time wall staring constantly.

You already established in your first point that A/A were the only people willing to do the crazy socking/fteing/tracking and in other replies indicate it is the other guilds that are capable of downing targets (but unwilling to neckbeard it up) own fault for not competing in the absurdity of FTE racing. What changes that if they disappear? Do Rustle/CSG/FoH et al all of a sudden decide they want to waste hours at a time staring bored out of their minds at a wall waiting for a tracker to say (insert mob here) go go go? If that were the case you would have seen it happen this weekend...

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This guy really hates neckbeards for being just a "bystander".

The problem is guilds dont want to slowly progress. They want everything bc they know they "could kill it" but when it comes to taking down a raid boss while others are contesting, all bets are off and they fold unwilling to try.

There are 1 hr locks on mobs - each time you secure one and suceed you gain a little bit of progress and knowledge but rather than focusing on specific targets to continually upwards progress, you kill a bit of this and that and feel you deserve that experience any time you like without putting in the effort to improve and grow.

Nemce will remember me making these gripes years ago in Class R forums-we lose sight of the carrot when the stick is snapped in two and a short stub is handed over with a carrot in trex arms reach.

Sure they gain little bits of progress and knowledge but they also have to sink resources/time into these gains against two well oiled machines that play EQ like it's their jobs. Eventually the little bits of progress stop coming or are so few and far between that the progressing guild stops progressing. This is what always happens. Plenty of guilds just said "fuck it" and found more sane shit to do. I took BDA to Phinny, a lot of people retired to Rustle because they already have most of their pixels, and dozens of other guilds just dissolved entirely because the p99 raid scene is absolutely fucking terrible.

There are not enough pixels for the amount of guilds on p99 that are able to do the content and the staff does not give two fucks about the casual player base. Vote with your feet you idiots. Stop banging your heads against this stupid fucking wall. Leaving all my cool stuff behind on p99 for Phinny was really hard, it was 5+ years of work, but scheduling raids with my friends made EQ actually fun. I traded all that stress for fun and I've never been happier with eq.

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by teija [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know everyone wants to pretend like this weeks spawns were super smooth and everyone was happy but that was not the case. Some guilds felt shafted by CSG/Rustle as they took the majority of the high tier mobs. This worked for 1 week but would 100% fall apart if you tried to do the same thing a few times, Hell one guild was about to just kill what they wanted because they felt they did not "get enough".

Not entirely true nor entirely false.

Infernus was left out of the initial meetings because of time zones and we legimitaley forgot in the 8 guild shuffle. So we immediately changed around our line up and gave infernus Dain and a couple other mobs, some in ToV North.

When they downed those with ease we realized they had a lot more horsepower than we thought and they ended up with juicer and harder targets. They had trouble with Lady M though and could not get her deaded so we again changed the rotation to trade in Jorlleag, if memory serves, so that they could get a dragon they could kill/pull. Tomorrow they will be attempting Lord Feshlak, another progression mob for them.

It's not about loot. It's about progression. Assigning CT to Anon and FoH and Venerate was definitely not in the "me,me,me" pixel mindset for CSG. The whole list was in the mindset of progressing and challenge ourselves according to our places in progression.