Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[Troxx]

The pain of loss stings doesn’t it?

Don’t worry. It will pass with time.

Chin up buddy! JBB is still a viable strategy. It works just fine! Much like FSI also works but is less powerful than racial regen, JBB spamming is simply not the best choice after the early powering levels have passed. Thankfully the shaman class is so ridiculously overpowered that you can make a ton of boneheaded mistakes and still defeat any encounter out there you want!

Hope that helps.

Lovingly yours,

Troxx

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The pain of loss stings doesn’t it?

Don’t worry. It will pass with time.

Chin up buddy! JBB is still a viable strategy. It works just fine! Much like FSI also works but is less powerful than racial regen, JBB spamming is simply not the best choice after the early powering levels have passed. Thankfully the shaman class is so ridiculously overpowered that you can make a ton of boneheaded mistakes and still defeat any encounter out there you want!

Hope that helps.

Lovingly yours,

Troxx

You should know the pain of loss, because you lost. You can double check my calculations https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=434 if you don't believe me. Sorry you got your hopes up! You simply didn't take into account a number of variables. It happens.

[Duik]

Based on this I'd do slow, 1 dot use pet hasted AND use JBB. So this is for a troll/barb/ogre
Dots are more efficient mana wise. While dots ticking id canni dance.
Pet gets enough agro in this time. Malo in this time as well to (help) mitigate resists.
JBB while not huge damage will take up the slack while saving the dot mana.

A troll with snare neck could easily ping pong (even tick mana sitting to get sit agro) a mob with JBB while letting pet rear attacks while taunt may re attract its attention. Also saving mana on re rooting when mob is in flee mode. Either scenario works here.
As usual the answer is somewhere in the middle.

OT i know but Thoughts?
No napkin math but based on you all's posted numbers this seems like a great niche strat.
-- Just realised this is iksar specific thread. So no JBB. Ha. Topics get messed up so often its hard to follow sometimes.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-- Just realised this is iksar specific thread. So no JBB. Ha. Topics get messed up so often its hard to follow sometimes.

One of OP’s concerns was whether being iksar and missing out on JBB would become a severe hamstrung, so jbb talk is valid.

[Troxx]

On standard xp mobs malo doesn’t provide value. Resist rate is already low so that’s just wasted mana [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes pet hasted + dot + jbb is gonna get it dead the fastest but you’ll end up killing fewer mobs per unit time due to recovery and down time. Remember… we’re talking about leveling with or without JBB here - no 60 and no torpor.

You know … those earlier levels where shamans either fly high or are mediocre depending entirely on how efficiently they manage their time and resources.


Shaman would have been a more interesting class without torpor. Druids should have gotten torpor. It was a mistake to give that kind of heal on a class that can slow, convert their hp to mana, CC, have a pocket pet, some of the best buffs, AND some pretty heavy hitting and mana efficient dots.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On standard xp mobs malo doesn’t provide value. Resist rate is already low so that’s just wasted mana [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agreed. I stopped using the malo line of spells while leveling from 50-60. My spells all landed enough of the time.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but you’ll end up killing fewer mobs per unit time due to recovery and down time [with JBB]. Remember… we’re talking about leveling with or without JBB here - no 60 and no torpor.

As I said, this is easy to disprove with math: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=434

JBB is more efficient for leveling than root rotting and dotting all the way to 60, even when comparing an Ogre with JBB to an Iksar without JBB (racial regen).

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shaman would have been a more interesting class without torpor. Druids should have gotten torpor. It was a mistake to give that kind of heal on a class that can slow, convert their hp to mana, CC, have a pocket pet, some of the best buffs, AND some pretty heavy hitting and mana efficient dots.

I do agree that pre-torpor Shamans are a lot of fun. I really enjoyed my JBB + Fungi Tunic + Fungi Staff + Black Fur Boots combo.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As I said, this is easy to disprove with math: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=434

JBB is more efficient for leveling than root rotting and dotting all the way to 60, even when comparing an Ogre with JBB to an Iksar without JBB (racial regen).

No.

You didn’t.

I literally showed you the exact opposite:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=416

You then moved the goalposts to a theoretical fight in PoM (rats). The mob now has 7k hp. I played along nicely. You moved the goalpost but I plugged in the exact parameters you provided. I even adjusted the pet dps up to 17 to accommodate YOUR parameters.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=430

Just face the music. You were wrong.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No.

You didn’t.

I literally showed you the exact opposite:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=416

You then moved the goalposts to a theoretical fight in PoM (rats). The mob now has 7k hp. I played along nicely. You moved the goalpost but I plugged in the exact parameters you provided. I even adjusted the pet dps up to 17 to accommodate YOUR parameters.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=430

Just face the music. You were wrong.

Everybody can see your calculations are incorrect and do not take into account all of the variables. Doing the math incorrectly and declaring victory is just silly. People can just read your post for themselves and see it. This is how it should look https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=434 .

[Duik]

On standard xp mobs malo doesn’t provide value. Resist rate is already low so that’s just wasted mana

Got it. I was just going off the statement that said resists on dots, slow and root need to be taken into account. Also i never earnt enough cash on live to buy a jbb so never tested any of this.
I took a druid to a higher lvl and that would have been splendid having a mana efficient heal like torp. But nvm.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Here is an easier to read version, using Troxx's example with the 1x regular root:

Criteria
=========
1. Level 58 Shaman.
2. Mob does 10 DPS while slowed with Togor's Insects.
3. 7000 HP mob, A Ratfink from PoM Rat Maze.
4. Ogre Shaman gains 28.46 Mana per tick while canni dancing with overhead from self Regrowth and pet Celerity over 1 hour.
5. Iksar Shaman gains 33.44 Mana per Tick while canni dancing with overhead from self Regrowth and pet Celerity over 1 hour.

Ogre with JBB
=============
- JBB (32.8 DPS) + Hasted Pet (17 DPS) + Blight, Hammer of the Scourge weapon proc (2.2 DPS) = 53 DPS
- 396 HP recovered from Standing Regen (3 HP) + Regrowth (15 HP) over 22 ticks
- 1320 damage taken from face tanking (10 DPS)
- 22 Mana recovered from Standing Regen (1 Mana) over 22 ticks
- 175 Mana spent on 1x Togor's Insects

615 Total mana spent using the values above

132 seconds to kill the mob (53 DPS)
130 Seconds of recovery time when recovering 28.46 mana per tick via canni dance

262 Second of encounter time per mob including recovery.

Iksar without JBB using root/rotting
=============
- 2x Envenomed Bolt (2665 Damage) + 1x Plague (1270 Damage) + Hasted and Regened Pet (17 DPS) = ~37.2 DPS when factoring in DoTs will not be active for the full fight
- 501 HP recovered from canni dance regen (16 HP) over 31 ticks
- 658 Mana recovered from canni dance regen (21 Mana) over 31 ticks
- 640 Mana spent on 2x Envenomed Bolts
- 300 Mana spent on 1x Plague
- 175 Mana spent on 1x Togor's Insects
- 30 Mana spent on 1x Root
- 125 Mana spent due to losing 5 canni dance ticks while casting the 5 spells above
- 69 Mana spent on overhead from casting Regen on Pet for the full hour

431 Total Mana Spent from the values above

188 seconds to kill the mob (37.2 DPS)
77 seconds of recovery time when recovering 33.44 mana per tick via canni dance

265 Seconds of encounter time per mob including recovery.

When you factor in all of the overhead, you will see that the JBB Shaman clears the encounter 3 seconds faster using Troxx's exact example of 1x Root, 2x Envenomed Bolts, 1x Plague, and 1x Togor's Insects. This example does not take into account the DoT Shaman's increased chances of spell resists (spending more mana), root breaks (spending more mana, taking damage), and requirement to canni dance perfectly while in combat (gaining less mana when missing the server tick).

This is why JBB is the better leveling tool from 45-60. Even when comparing a Shaman race with Regen to a Shaman race without Regen, the JBB wins. Simplifying your playstyle and reducing RNG while clearing mobs at the same speed is better in the long run. You save a good amount of time and mana by avoiding the extra RNG elements that root/rotting has.

For people who want to see more details on some of the calculations:

 

- An Ogre Shaman normally gets 6 (sitting regen) + 15 (regrowth) = 21 HP and 21 mana per tick while canni dancing. This translates to 32 mana per tick after cannibalizing the HP. Casting 4x Celerity costs 740 mana per hour, and casting 4x regrowth costs 1200 mana. Casting 8x spells also causes you to lose 8 ticks of canni dancing. This means you lose 160 meditation mana and 48 HP (24 Mana cannibalized). 740 + 1200 + 160 + 24 = 2124 / 600 ticks per hour = 3.58 mana regeneration per tick over an hour. 32 - 3.54 = 28.46 Mana per tick while canni dancing after considering overhead.

- An Iksar Shaman normally gets 16 (sitting regen) + 15 (regrowth) = 31 HP and 21 mana per tick while canni dancing. This translates to 37 mana per tick after cannibalizing the HP. Casting 4x Celerity costs 740 mana per hour, and casting 4x regrowth costs 1200 mana. Casting 8x spells also causes you to lose 8 ticks of canni dancing. This means you lose 160 meditation mana and 80 HP (40 Mana cannibalized). 740 + 1200 + 160 + 40 = 2140 / 600 ticks per hour = 3.566 mana regeneration per tick over an hour. 37 - 3.566 = 33.44 Mana per tick while canni dancing after considering overhead.