Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[bcbrown]

Now that we have established that clerics have substantially better mana efficiency on healing charm pets from 34 onwards, lets talk about hp buffing our friendly casters:

At 34 shamans have Talisman of Tnarg at 150hp. Health gives 31 sta, happy to call it 50hp
At 44, Altuna gives 250. Stamina gives 40sta, or say 80hp
55 has Kragg for 380, and Riotous Health gives 50 sta or 100hp

At 34, clerics have valor at 168hp/12ac, and Symbol of Pinzarn, 224 hp
At 44, Resolution gives 232/15, and Symbol of Naltron, 406 hp
At 52, Heroic Bond is 360/18 for whole group
At 54, Symbol of Marzin gives 640hp

And of course, at 60, Aegolism gives 1100HP and 54 ac to the group.


So at 34, the shaman can buff 200hp, while the cleric is buffing 392, almost twice
At 44, the shaman can buff 330, while the cleric has 638
At 55, the shaman has 480, while the cleric has 1000hp

So at all levels the cleric can HP buff about twice as well as a shaman.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Thus far Bcbrown has repeated that Clerics have better better Heals and HP buffs. Neither of these points were in question. The healing efficiency comparison was simply to show Shamans have good healing efficiency too.

He hasn't explained why the extra healing efficiency or HP buffs are speeding up the leveling process compared to a Shaman, he is just assuming this is the case.

He can't explain why Cleric Stuns are better than Malo either.

I am disappointed thus far. I think he is just going to repeat what I have already said, without explaining why the Cleric is helping the group more, and thus a better choice.

[bcbrown]

Buddy, not once in your three thousand word magnum opus did you mention how shamans speed up the leveling process. I'm going point by point. Your first two points were healing efficiency and HP buffs. I'm trying to have the dialogue you said you wanted.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Buddy, not once in your three thousand word magnum opus did you mention how shamans speed up the leveling process. I'm going point by point. Your first two points were healing efficiency and HP buffs. I'm trying to have the dialogue you said you wanted.

You didn't read it then. Go back and read it before just repeating what I have already said.

You need to tell us why a Cleric is better. I don't think anybody wants to see you just repeat what I said across multiple posts.

We already agree that they have better HP buffs and Heals. Where is this benefit speeding up leveling compared to a Shaman?

[bcbrown]

I'm directly rebutting what you said:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Level 39 - Clerics and Shamans are basically even at this level in terms of healing. Clerics don't actually have a large healing advantage over Shamans until the upper 50s

The HP difference between Shaman buffs and Cleric buffs isn't that large

Actually - clerics have substantially better healing efficiency on charm pets. And cleric HP buffs are twice as good at all levels - since you forgot about Valor/Resolution/Heroic Bond.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm directly rebutting what you said:


Actually - clerics have substantially better healing efficiency on charm pets. And cleric HP buffs are twice as good at all levels - since you forgot about Valor/Resolution/Heroic Bond.

There is nothing to rebut. It's fine if the numbers weren't perfect, because it doesn't change the point. We already covered Heroic Bond in a previous post. The point was Shamans can heal and supply HP buffs, and they aren't as bad as people claim on these fronts. It was simply a rebuttal of the idea that Shamans are terrible at healing or HP buffing during the leveling process.

Clerics are the ones who believe their healing and HP buffs are speeding up the leveling process from my understanding. You need to tell us why you believe this. That is how you support your position. It is what I am asking you to do.

Thus far, your only point about Clerics being better was your opinion Cleric Stun is better than Malo. But you can't support this opinion, so it's moot. This means you've provided nothing to support your position thus far after multiple posts.

When will you tell us why Clerics are better?

[bcbrown]

Clerics have better healing efficiency on charm pets. Clerics have substantially better HP buffs. Clerics have faster blast healing for group members. Clerics have stuns to support charm breaks. Clerics open up tricky pulling maneuvers with lulls and DAs. Clerics can rez, including on dungeon crawls where you can't park a pocket cleric.

If you don't want to hear any of that, that's on you.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Clerics have better healing efficiency on charm pets. Clerics have substantially better HP buffs. Clerics have faster blast healing for group members. Clerics have stuns to support charm breaks. Clerics open up tricky pulling maneuvers with lulls and DAs. Clerics can rez, including on dungeon crawls where you can't park a pocket cleric.

If you don't want to hear any of that, that's on you.

But does this actually speed up leveling? Being better at something doesn't always actually help speed up leveling.

You need to show examples where a Cleric's superior healing sped up the group more than what a Shaman is offering the group, for example.

You are just repeating the same points over and over, while never explaining any of it. I can explain my positions as to why I think Shaman is better

https://project1999.com/forums/showp...postcount=4843

You can't do the same with clerics. You just repeat bullet points.

[Elizondo]

DSM argues for the sake of arguing

The topic is irrelevant


oh the answer to the OP's question is ENC / ENC / Cleric / (Mage or Druid)

[bcbrown]

Maybe you can explain to us why you think clerics synergize well with enchanters, since you're not interested in my explanation.