Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[Vianna]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's the same, but it still requires staff to review the "tapes" and then make a judgement call based on that alone.

The way it is now, players can just solve their own issues and go about their business leaving the volunteer staff to tend to the bulk of the server's population.

Less stress for Staff = staff last longer. The server's history is littered with staff becoming too involved with the endgame and ultimately ending up with staff quitting/fired.

p99 is probably more peaceful now than it has ever been, both staff wise and player wise.

While I am all for making the GMs job as easy as possible... The players should never govern completely on their own... Especially when it is the end game of the server. A lot of greed gets involved and no one wants to share. SO instead of being reasonable with each other people simply train and try to horde everything for themselves. Instead of working things out reasonably we end up with griefing in all guilds that enter that zone. Now I am not saying it is wrong because of the current rules in place foster that environment. A lot of guilds on top with the current training rules would do the same thing. It is hard to keep a rotation in place when a lot of people in game can only see stats and pixels and desires them. They all claim it isn't the loot it is for "Fun" but if those mobs were dropping clothe armor with no stats no one would train and everyone would work together taking turns killing the mobs for fun.

I know it would cause more work for some GMs to review fraps etc.... But it is better than letting the inmates run the asylum so to speak. I mean you have played on this server Stealin...You know there is never going to be guilds who reasonably will work together for a long period of time with the current rules in place. That is why a Play-nice policy was in place on live...That is why GMs stepped in and made guilds work it out. In the end you just lose people and guilds brag about running people off the server as if that is an accomplishment.

[NegaStoat]

Edit - nuked out this post as the one below me explains what's up. I had to do the research on my own into other ancient threads to determine what goal the server staff was after in leaving VP in the state it's in. It makes me sad, but I understand what's going on. I'll continue to enjoy playing on the server regardless.

[Vianna]

From a bug thread posted by someone there. NOTICE the very first condition.

5.6.2 Acceptable CSRep Presence in Customer Service Limited Zones

The presence of Customer Service Representatives in Customer Service Limited Zones creates two undesired situations. First, players are more likely to ask for assistance in gameplay issues from the CS staff if a CS Rep is in the zone. Second, players are more likely to blame CS Representatives for any inconvenience they may experience if a CS Rep is in the zone. For these reasons mentioned above CS Reps must not be in Customer Service Limited Zones except under the following conditions:
•They are investigating a possible Exception Incident (Abuse, Disruption, or Exploitation) at the request of a player.
•They are investigating a possible bug at the request of a player for documentation purposes.
•They are removing a corpse from an object such as the ground, a wall, a tree, etc. according to Corpse Recovery Procedure (See 7.3 Corpse Recovery)
•They are unsticking a player stuck on the geometry (in an object, in a wall, etc). The player should be moved the minimum amount of distance necessary to unstick them from the geometry.
•They are summoning a corpse from a verified inaccessible area listed in 5.6.2.1 to a position of the player's choice within the zone.
•They are summoning a player from a verified inaccessible area listed in 5.6.2.1 in the Customer Service Limited Zone to a non-PvP area of Arena and then back to either the zone-in point of the Customer Service Limited Zone or to another player of the player's choice in the Customer Service Limited Zone.
•They are following Policy and Procedures concerning an Under the World Case. (See 7.13)

Thanks so much for doing the research and finding this. I knew I didn't remember training in VP for a reason

[timhutton]

Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From a bug thread posted by someone there. NOTICE the very first condition.

5.6.2 Acceptable CSRep Presence in Customer Service Limited Zones

The presence of Customer Service Representatives in Customer Service Limited Zones creates two undesired situations. First, players are more likely to ask for assistance in gameplay issues from the CS staff if a CS Rep is in the zone. Second, players are more likely to blame CS Representatives for any inconvenience they may experience if a CS Rep is in the zone. For these reasons mentioned above CS Reps must not be in Customer Service Limited Zones except under the following conditions:
•They are investigating a possible Exception Incident (Abuse, Disruption, or Exploitation) at the request of a player.
•They are investigating a possible bug at the request of a player for documentation purposes.
•They are removing a corpse from an object such as the ground, a wall, a tree, etc. according to Corpse Recovery Procedure (See 7.3 Corpse Recovery)
•They are unsticking a player stuck on the geometry (in an object, in a wall, etc). The player should be moved the minimum amount of distance necessary to unstick them from the geometry.
•They are summoning a corpse from a verified inaccessible area listed in 5.6.2.1 to a position of the player's choice within the zone.
•They are summoning a player from a verified inaccessible area listed in 5.6.2.1 in the Customer Service Limited Zone to a non-PvP area of Arena and then back to either the zone-in point of the Customer Service Limited Zone or to another player of the player's choice in the Customer Service Limited Zone.
•They are following Policy and Procedures concerning an Under the World Case. (See 7.13)

Thanks so much for doing the research and finding this. I knew I didn't remember training in VP for a reason

Nice, that really ties it all together. Where is that from?

It doesn't really leave us off any better than where we started though. All of this research and fact finding amounts to only one thing: showing that the people that keep trying to claim that VP was a trainable zone because of lack of CSR and that it happened on their server (it was for some reason different on other servers according to them) are just spewing bullshit. We all kind of knew that to begin with, the anecdotal evidence, lack of hard proof, and basic common sense more than make it clear that training was never allowed in VP or anywhere else.

That still doesn't change much because training is, for some reason, sanctioned here and the griefing is allowed to go on despite the majority of players being against it.

So I've got to ask the people that put the rule into place, why are we intentionally allowing this non-classic element to occur on this server? What is the reason? Is it to free up GM time? Is it to "spice" things up? Is it to create a scenario where only one guild gets to raid VP? What is the reason for this clearly non-classic ruling? An answer would be wonderful, even if it amounts to "because I said so". At least then we aren't using the "it was classic" cop-out and everyone knows why.

Let's get back to the title of this thread and get an answer please: Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak?

P.s. Before one of the RnF regulars comes around and says something like "it was all discussed and talked about in the past, go find it" I've already spent hours looking for it and found nothing, so please either spare me or help me out here: http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=226

[Vianna]

From this guidebook is where it came from.


https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...D8lcWnuWktzBhg

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by timhutton [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak?

Because it's kinda fun. For example, my favorite PK video from my old L2 clan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB9Z7bwyrss

[mtb tripper]

that explains why there are no new singer songwriters

[timhutton]

That highlighted paragraph basically defines people like Zeelot/Scerix to the letter. If I weren't so lazy and it wasn't so obvious I would search for instances where Zeelot has claimed things like "The sleeper will not be woken and I will train everyone who tries" or in this very thread where Scerix says he will continue to train anyone who steps foot inside VP.

People like that don't deserve to be allowed to play this game. It's unfortunate that not only are they allowed to, but the GMs don't mind as Sony used to. Sad state of affairs.

[Llodd]

Rotations are the only way that other guilds that don't want to descend to the training level will see vp. Unfortunately staff refuse that, which is fair enough. And TMO, currently, have no interest in that.

I think it would be extremely good for the server if TMO would atleast consider opening up VP to other guilds on a rare basis. Say once every quarter (4 months) or something similar, just as a goodwill measure towards the servers community. They would still get to keep their phatlewts and any guild that genuinley wants to try and raid there more often they could still train the shit out of.

[Autotune]

BTW, a 2nd competitive guild doesn't have to try and be top dog. All you would have to do is get a guild together and just focus on being number 2. If you aren't a threat and have no interest in knocking off "The top contender" then I doubt seriously that TMO would treat you like they did IB/VD/BDA/FE/etc. This was the problem before, least from my experience in guild chat, guilds talked all the smack that IB and TMO did with each other and TMO treated them exactly like they treated IB.

Talk the talk...